9 ms·

Windows running in VM on M2 is faster than native Windows on x86. Such a shame for Intel, AMD and Qualcomm.

macintux 4y ago
Non-native Windows (double-checked the video to make sure it wasn’t Windows for Arm) at that. Quite impressive. (Apparently I’m wrong, leaving my original gaffe in place.)
- arthurmorgan 4y ago
  Are you sure about that it is not Windows for ARM?
- barkingcat 4y ago
  it is windows for arm.
incahoots 4y ago
I would say it speaks volumes of the crew at Parallels and how polished the software is.
- whynotminot 4y ago
  I mean it's both. Wouldn't be possible without absolutely insane hardware. But also wouldn't be possible without good work from Parallels.
- sitzkrieg 4y ago
  meanwhile vmware feels there is no need to support apple silicon hosts, feeling there is no demand lol
  - lode 4y ago
    VMware Fusion has a tech preview for Apple Silicon at https://customerconnect.vmware.com/downloads/get-download?downloadGroup=FUS-PUBTP-22H2 https://customerconnect.vmware.com/downloads/get-download?do... Background at: https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2022/07/just-released-vmware-fusion-22h2-tech-preview.html https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2022/07/just-released-vm... (Disclaimer: I work at VMware - but not on Fusion)
    - cassianoleal 4y ago
      It's been a tech preview for a long time. I used to have a Fusion license before Apple Silicon but now I have Parallels because it works.
    - sitzkrieg 4y ago
      i appreciate it, now im baffled why our support ticket got such an answer, it was recentlyish
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Parallels only product is Parallels, it's the entire company. VMWare Fusion is an afterthought of a multi-billion dollar company.
    - trollied 4y ago
      > Parallels only product is Parallels, it's the entire company. Not true these days. "In December 2018, Parallels became part of the Corel Corporation and joins an impressive collection of industry-leading brands, including CorelDRAW®, WinZip® and MindManager®. Parallels has offices in North America, Europe, Australia and Asia."
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - bombcar 4y ago
        Wow talk about a blast from the past! Didn't know Corel still existed.
dmitriid 4y ago
It was an additional eye opener after I tried, unsuccessfully, to like Raspberri Pi. "Powerful 64-bit CPU"? After M1 I kept expecting it to be fast and to run non-ARM software :D Once you try M1/M2 Macs it's very hard to go back to pretty much any hardware.
- karamanolev 4y ago
  Raspberry Pi has a distinctively different target audience. If you expect an RPi to run non-ARM code, then I'd say it's not made for you. I agree that M1/M2 Macs are good, but I implore everyone to not get sucked into and stuck into the Apple ecosystem. Nothing good can come out of tech dominance.
  - tomxor 4y ago
    > I agree that M1/M2 Macs are good, but I implore everyone to not get sucked into and stuck into the Apple ecosystem. So much this. Every time I hear something good about the M1/M2 it's interesting but it's like "aah, such a shame I can never use it without loosing my sanity due to all of the strings it has attached".
    - entropicdrifter 4y ago
      I bought an M1 Mac Mini on sale earlier this year when Microcenter had them under $600, now it just runs Asahi Linux. Eventually I'm going to move all of my self-hosted server stuff over to it, minus Jellyfin and whatever else needs hardware transcoding capability.
      - tomxor 4y ago
        I'm happy for you, and that would also be pragmatic for me being a Linux user, but my annoying idealistic conscience refuses to fund Apple's activities.
        DrudgeCorporate 4y ago
dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
> Such a shame for Intel, AMD and Qualcomm. If the article is true (and that's a big if, given Max Tech's history of tech reporting), instead of blaming the above companies I'd just congratulate Apple and thank them for putting the bar higher. AMD recent processors are still great on the desktop, and an absolute blast on the server, with extremely attractive value for money ratio.
- akmittal 4y ago
  > AMD recent processors are still great on the desktop, and an absolute blast on the server Yes they are truly great but point to consider is they are just competing against Intel. Don't get wrong I love what AMD has done recently with Ryzen but we need ARM based servers which has perf per watt competing with M1/M2
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    AMD is also stuck on TSMC's 7nm node while Apple hogs up all their 5nm capacity for M1/2 and A15. Intel has no real excuse since they use their own fabs and spun their wheels on 14nm for half a decade.
    - pulse7 4y ago
      You can not compare TSMC's "7nm" with Intels "14 nm". These numbers are just marketing...
      - out_of_protocol 4y ago
        Can't we go with MT? (millions of transistors per square millimeter)
        nomel 4y ago
        Power and speed isn't just about transistor density. The construction of the transistors also has an impact. See FinFET and GAAFET.
overgard 4y ago
I wouldn't go too far.. I was shopping for a laptop a month ago and considering the M2 MacBook. The CPU performance is definitely impressive, but I ended up getting a Razer Blade 14 because it absolutely decimates the MacBook in GPU performance and gaming related stuff, unless you go top of the line MacBook Pro which would have been about $1200 more and couldn't run most games. If you don't need a great GPU I would definitely go with a MacBook, but if you need one you're just not going to beat an RTX 3080 and an AMD Ryzen.
- kaba0 4y ago
  And for how long can you game on it unplugged? I feel like gaming on a laptop is a niche, and is never gonna be too practical.
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    Just depends what you care about. All the games I care about, from Baldur’s Gate to Crusader Kings to emulated games, are best enjoyed in my bed or couch on my laptop. My desktop feels more niche for my preferences since only a few games I care about require sitting at a desk in “FPS position”. I had more fun building the thing than using it.
  - overgard 4y ago
    For me it's actually about game development, so I'm running things like Unity and baking light maps and things like that, which I absolutely do on the go in coffee shops or whatnot. The battery life is actually pretty decent. Nowhere close to a macbook but I don't have to be plugged in all the time either. I'm not sure I'd call it niche. No I'm not playing counterstrike in a coffee shop, but it can be fun to bring it over to a friends house. I haven't bought a desktop since 2014, I like having the freedom to work from anywhere and not have to move files between computers all the time. When I have it at home I have it hooked into 3 monitors and a full size keyboard, and it runs pretty quiet, so it's not really any different from having a desktop in that regard. YMMV though. Most of what I do with a computer even besides games needs a very powerful GPU. If you're working with docker and webdev I'd just get a macbook. My only point is that apple doesn't have a pure monopoly on performance, as impressive as their new silicon is there's some things it's still not so good at.
kllrnohj 4y ago
How is this a shame for AMD or Qualcomm, who aren't part of this comparison at all? > Windows running in VM on M2 is faster than native Windows on x86. Which x86? 12th gen Intel? 11th gen Intel? Ryzen 6000? These are all wildly different processors. This comment is absurd. It's also "Windows ARM version running in a VM on M2", not x86 windows which is the only thing you'd care about running in VM on MacOS if you were actually going to do this for some reason.
- throw10920 4y ago
  It's not a coherent comment - the part about "shame" is meant to incur an emotional response and bypass logical reasoning systems of the human mind.
SantiagoElf 4y ago
I am about to run the GeekBench with my main laptop. https://valid.x86.fr/u8b004 https://valid.x86.fr/u8b004 I believe - it will OBLITERATE M2.
- microtonal 4y ago
  No need: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=&q=AMD+Ryzen+9+5900HX https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=&q=AMD+Ryze... Also doesn't really obliterate the M2: https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-air-2022 https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-air-2022 Seems like multi-core scores are all over the map (probably depending on the cooling of the laptop), but not really impressive when comparing to a passively cooled CPU. Single-core scores are meh compared to the M2.
  - SantiagoElf 4y ago
    Yeah, not what I expected. Here is my result: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16820778 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16820778 Given that I didn't stop anything and was playing Dota 2 while running it ... Still, I believe at some point once newer iterations of X86-64 drop support for legacy instructions (they still have to support code running on 8080/8086 through 486) - we will have smaller, more efficient X86-64 chips. Actually, it is darn impressive that the latest Intel/AMD chips keep up with the brand new M1/M2 chips that have zero legacy instructions and the Intel/AMD chips carry 50 years of legacy :)
    - SantiagoElf 4y ago
      Noticed that I ran the previously GeekBench on balanced power plan. Here are the results on Performance Power Plan - https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16821908 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16821908 Summarized results - https://i.imgur.com/X5vKtFn.png https://i.imgur.com/X5vKtFn.png Overall, with the new results - AMD Ryzen 9 5900HX is 18% slower in Single Core, 4% faster in Multi Core. Not that bad ...
      - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Non-native Windows (double-checked the video to make sure it wasn’t Windows for Arm) at that. Quite impressive. (Apparently I’m wrong, leaving my original gaffe in place.)

arthurmorgan 4y ago
Are you sure about that it is not Windows for ARM?
barkingcat 4y ago
it is windows for arm.

incahoots 4y ago

I would say it speaks volumes of the crew at Parallels and how polished the software is.

whynotminot 4y ago
I mean it's both. Wouldn't be possible without absolutely insane hardware. But also wouldn't be possible without good work from Parallels.
sitzkrieg 4y ago
meanwhile vmware feels there is no need to support apple silicon hosts, feeling there is no demand lol
- lode 4y ago
  VMware Fusion has a tech preview for Apple Silicon at https://customerconnect.vmware.com/downloads/get-download?downloadGroup=FUS-PUBTP-22H2 https://customerconnect.vmware.com/downloads/get-download?do... Background at: https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2022/07/just-released-vmware-fusion-22h2-tech-preview.html https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2022/07/just-released-vm... (Disclaimer: I work at VMware - but not on Fusion)
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    It's been a tech preview for a long time. I used to have a Fusion license before Apple Silicon but now I have Parallels because it works.
  - sitzkrieg 4y ago
    i appreciate it, now im baffled why our support ticket got such an answer, it was recentlyish
- bombcar 4y ago
  Parallels only product is Parallels, it's the entire company. VMWare Fusion is an afterthought of a multi-billion dollar company.
  - trollied 4y ago
    > Parallels only product is Parallels, it's the entire company. Not true these days. "In December 2018, Parallels became part of the Corel Corporation and joins an impressive collection of industry-leading brands, including CorelDRAW®, WinZip® and MindManager®. Parallels has offices in North America, Europe, Australia and Asia."
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Wow talk about a blast from the past! Didn't know Corel still existed.

dmitriid 4y ago

It was an additional eye opener after I tried, unsuccessfully, to like Raspberri Pi. "Powerful 64-bit CPU"? After M1 I kept expecting it to be fast and to run non-ARM software :D Once you try M1/M2 Macs it's very hard to go back to pretty much any hardware.

karamanolev 4y ago
Raspberry Pi has a distinctively different target audience. If you expect an RPi to run non-ARM code, then I'd say it's not made for you. I agree that M1/M2 Macs are good, but I implore everyone to not get sucked into and stuck into the Apple ecosystem. Nothing good can come out of tech dominance.
- tomxor 4y ago
  > I agree that M1/M2 Macs are good, but I implore everyone to not get sucked into and stuck into the Apple ecosystem. So much this. Every time I hear something good about the M1/M2 it's interesting but it's like "aah, such a shame I can never use it without loosing my sanity due to all of the strings it has attached".
  - entropicdrifter 4y ago
    I bought an M1 Mac Mini on sale earlier this year when Microcenter had them under $600, now it just runs Asahi Linux. Eventually I'm going to move all of my self-hosted server stuff over to it, minus Jellyfin and whatever else needs hardware transcoding capability.
    - tomxor 4y ago
      I'm happy for you, and that would also be pragmatic for me being a Linux user, but my annoying idealistic conscience refuses to fund Apple's activities.
      - DrudgeCorporate 4y ago

dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago

> Such a shame for Intel, AMD and Qualcomm. If the article is true (and that's a big if, given Max Tech's history of tech reporting), instead of blaming the above companies I'd just congratulate Apple and thank them for putting the bar higher. AMD recent processors are still great on the desktop, and an absolute blast on the server, with extremely attractive value for money ratio.

akmittal 4y ago
> AMD recent processors are still great on the desktop, and an absolute blast on the server Yes they are truly great but point to consider is they are just competing against Intel. Don't get wrong I love what AMD has done recently with Ryzen but we need ARM based servers which has perf per watt competing with M1/M2
- babypuncher 4y ago
  AMD is also stuck on TSMC's 7nm node while Apple hogs up all their 5nm capacity for M1/2 and A15. Intel has no real excuse since they use their own fabs and spun their wheels on 14nm for half a decade.
  - pulse7 4y ago
    You can not compare TSMC's "7nm" with Intels "14 nm". These numbers are just marketing...
    - out_of_protocol 4y ago
      Can't we go with MT? (millions of transistors per square millimeter)
      - nomel 4y ago
        Power and speed isn't just about transistor density. The construction of the transistors also has an impact. See FinFET and GAAFET.

overgard 4y ago

I wouldn't go too far.. I was shopping for a laptop a month ago and considering the M2 MacBook. The CPU performance is definitely impressive, but I ended up getting a Razer Blade 14 because it absolutely decimates the MacBook in GPU performance and gaming related stuff, unless you go top of the line MacBook Pro which would have been about $1200 more and couldn't run most games. If you don't need a great GPU I would definitely go with a MacBook, but if you need one you're just not going to beat an RTX 3080 and an AMD Ryzen.

kaba0 4y ago
And for how long can you game on it unplugged? I feel like gaming on a laptop is a niche, and is never gonna be too practical.
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  Just depends what you care about. All the games I care about, from Baldur’s Gate to Crusader Kings to emulated games, are best enjoyed in my bed or couch on my laptop. My desktop feels more niche for my preferences since only a few games I care about require sitting at a desk in “FPS position”. I had more fun building the thing than using it.
- overgard 4y ago
  For me it's actually about game development, so I'm running things like Unity and baking light maps and things like that, which I absolutely do on the go in coffee shops or whatnot. The battery life is actually pretty decent. Nowhere close to a macbook but I don't have to be plugged in all the time either. I'm not sure I'd call it niche. No I'm not playing counterstrike in a coffee shop, but it can be fun to bring it over to a friends house. I haven't bought a desktop since 2014, I like having the freedom to work from anywhere and not have to move files between computers all the time. When I have it at home I have it hooked into 3 monitors and a full size keyboard, and it runs pretty quiet, so it's not really any different from having a desktop in that regard. YMMV though. Most of what I do with a computer even besides games needs a very powerful GPU. If you're working with docker and webdev I'd just get a macbook. My only point is that apple doesn't have a pure monopoly on performance, as impressive as their new silicon is there's some things it's still not so good at.

kllrnohj 4y ago

How is this a shame for AMD or Qualcomm, who aren't part of this comparison at all? > Windows running in VM on M2 is faster than native Windows on x86. Which x86? 12th gen Intel? 11th gen Intel? Ryzen 6000? These are all wildly different processors. This comment is absurd. It's also "Windows ARM version running in a VM on M2", not x86 windows which is the only thing you'd care about running in VM on MacOS if you were actually going to do this for some reason.

throw10920 4y ago
It's not a coherent comment - the part about "shame" is meant to incur an emotional response and bypass logical reasoning systems of the human mind.

SantiagoElf 4y ago

I am about to run the GeekBench with my main laptop. https://valid.x86.fr/u8b004 https://valid.x86.fr/u8b004 I believe - it will OBLITERATE M2.

microtonal 4y ago
No need: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=&q=AMD+Ryzen+9+5900HX https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=&q=AMD+Ryze... Also doesn't really obliterate the M2: https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-air-2022 https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-air-2022 Seems like multi-core scores are all over the map (probably depending on the cooling of the laptop), but not really impressive when comparing to a passively cooled CPU. Single-core scores are meh compared to the M2.
- SantiagoElf 4y ago
  Yeah, not what I expected. Here is my result: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16820778 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16820778 Given that I didn't stop anything and was playing Dota 2 while running it ... Still, I believe at some point once newer iterations of X86-64 drop support for legacy instructions (they still have to support code running on 8080/8086 through 486) - we will have smaller, more efficient X86-64 chips. Actually, it is darn impressive that the latest Intel/AMD chips keep up with the brand new M1/M2 chips that have zero legacy instructions and the Intel/AMD chips carry 50 years of legacy :)
  - SantiagoElf 4y ago
    Noticed that I ran the previously GeekBench on balanced power plan. Here are the results on Performance Power Plan - https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16821908 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16821908 Summarized results - https://i.imgur.com/X5vKtFn.png https://i.imgur.com/X5vKtFn.png Overall, with the new results - AMD Ryzen 9 5900HX is 18% slower in Single Core, 4% faster in Multi Core. Not that bad ...
    - 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]