5 ms·

Why is it lame that they had a specific group of disadvantaged people they were trying to target? When governments make blanket payouts (i.e. what the US did du

Why is it lame that they had a specific group of disadvantaged people they were trying to target? When governments make blanket payouts (i.e. what the US did during COVID) people complain about the money going to people who don't need it. In this case they had a very specific group, intent, and budget. Isn't this what "small" government is supposed to do? And the bikes they're trying to encourage people to buy probably aren't the high end ones, or even the mid-range bikes. I'm guessing someone did some research at some point.

qaq 4y ago
people making under 13K a year are not really buying 6K bikes
- wolfram74 4y ago
  costco has a folding ebike that's under 400$[0]. [0]https://www.costco.com/jetson-bolt-pro-folding-electric-bike.product.100712067.html https://www.costco.com/jetson-bolt-pro-folding-electric-bike...
  - Workaccount2 4y ago
    Total aside... That bike looks like one of those mini circus bikes that clowns ride
  - jstanley 4y ago
    But a 40% subsidy on a $400 bike is only worth $160, not the €4k headline figure.
    - kaibee 4y ago
      If you give everyone a no questions asked 100% subsidy, you're gonna have a lot of people reselling bikes that the government paid for.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        They'd have to resell them abroad though, the local market would be pretty much saturated, no?
        danielheath 4y ago
        It's not difficult to get from Paris to Barcelona and back, with or without a bike.
        Scoundreller 4y ago
        If I need to offload an ebike from Paris, I could think of closer countries that would value them higher!
      - antasvara 4y ago
        Isn't that true of any subsidy? If 40% of my bike is subsidized, I only need to buy and resell that bike for greater than 60% of the purchase price. I bet you'd get less resellers, but you'd definitely still get a lot of them.
      - andrepd 4y ago
        That is true with any amount of subsidy. And yes, and people can use e.g. welfare payments to buy cigarrettes and booze. That is in itself not an argument against welfare payments.
      - InitialLastName 4y ago
        Why would you buy a bike from a reseller for $0 + profit when you can get one the with a government subsidy for $0?
    - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
      Yeah but you also have cash from selling your car.
      - jstanley 4y ago
        But you get cash from selling your car even without the government subsidy, If "France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy" is 96% the cash they got from selling their car, then it's a strange turn of phrase. It's more like "the secondhand car market is offering a €4k everything-subsidy if you give up your car"!
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  Probably the ones least able to afford petrol though?
LtWorf 4y ago
You think poor people living in the banlieu are going to get such bikes they can't even afford to have them stolen in 1 hour? This was probably made targeting some specific category that isn't the one you're thinking. Better give some money to people who don't need it than make some overly complicated plan that requires a specialist to access and only targets some friends.
- jeromegv 4y ago
  > Better give some money to people who don't need it than make some overly complicated plan that requires a specialist to access and only targets some friends. I personally agree with that. But then it always ending up hurting the politicians that came up with that policy because medias will broadcast 24-7 examples of the few people that received it that did not deserve it. Even 2 years after COVID stimulus, McConnel keeps repeating that people are still so rich from receiving thousands and thousands of dollars and that was responsible for 2022 labor shortage... (for $2000 distributed now more than a year ago)
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    Yeah that's true. In Italy they gave some money to low income people and I'm sure after the next elections the right wing government that will win will take that away. They never say how it made people able to avoid joining black market jobs or crime. They just show restaurant owners crying because they can't find (greatly underpaid) workers.
dmix 4y ago
Obviously because of how they targeted people and not that they targeted a demographic. 13.5% of the population has access to $300, which is fine but is probably not a the typical market for expensive bikes, and $300 will only get you 5-20% off (not including a helmet). A lot of these programs are made to sound good on campaign platforms but don’t do much at all IRL Finding a way to subsidize conversion kits + local shops to do it would be a good way to actually help poor people https://www.autoevolution.com/news/skarper-s-revolutionary-e-bike-conversion-kit-may-be-the-best-that-money-will-buy-196485.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/skarper-s-revolutionary-e...
panick21_ 4y ago
You know what bikes are good for poor people. Bikes without electric motors.

qaq 4y ago

people making under 13K a year are not really buying 6K bikes

wolfram74 4y ago
costco has a folding ebike that's under 400$[0]. [0]https://www.costco.com/jetson-bolt-pro-folding-electric-bike.product.100712067.html https://www.costco.com/jetson-bolt-pro-folding-electric-bike...
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  Total aside... That bike looks like one of those mini circus bikes that clowns ride
- jstanley 4y ago
  But a 40% subsidy on a $400 bike is only worth $160, not the €4k headline figure.
  - kaibee 4y ago
    If you give everyone a no questions asked 100% subsidy, you're gonna have a lot of people reselling bikes that the government paid for.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      They'd have to resell them abroad though, the local market would be pretty much saturated, no?
      - danielheath 4y ago
        It's not difficult to get from Paris to Barcelona and back, with or without a bike.
        Scoundreller 4y ago
        If I need to offload an ebike from Paris, I could think of closer countries that would value them higher!
    - antasvara 4y ago
      Isn't that true of any subsidy? If 40% of my bike is subsidized, I only need to buy and resell that bike for greater than 60% of the purchase price. I bet you'd get less resellers, but you'd definitely still get a lot of them.
    - andrepd 4y ago
      That is true with any amount of subsidy. And yes, and people can use e.g. welfare payments to buy cigarrettes and booze. That is in itself not an argument against welfare payments.
    - InitialLastName 4y ago
      Why would you buy a bike from a reseller for $0 + profit when you can get one the with a government subsidy for $0?
  - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
    Yeah but you also have cash from selling your car.
    - jstanley 4y ago
      But you get cash from selling your car even without the government subsidy, If "France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy" is 96% the cash they got from selling their car, then it's a strange turn of phrase. It's more like "the secondhand car market is offering a €4k everything-subsidy if you give up your car"!
JKCalhoun 4y ago
Probably the ones least able to afford petrol though?

LtWorf 4y ago

You think poor people living in the banlieu are going to get such bikes they can't even afford to have them stolen in 1 hour? This was probably made targeting some specific category that isn't the one you're thinking. Better give some money to people who don't need it than make some overly complicated plan that requires a specialist to access and only targets some friends.

jeromegv 4y ago
> Better give some money to people who don't need it than make some overly complicated plan that requires a specialist to access and only targets some friends. I personally agree with that. But then it always ending up hurting the politicians that came up with that policy because medias will broadcast 24-7 examples of the few people that received it that did not deserve it. Even 2 years after COVID stimulus, McConnel keeps repeating that people are still so rich from receiving thousands and thousands of dollars and that was responsible for 2022 labor shortage... (for $2000 distributed now more than a year ago)
- LtWorf 4y ago
  Yeah that's true. In Italy they gave some money to low income people and I'm sure after the next elections the right wing government that will win will take that away. They never say how it made people able to avoid joining black market jobs or crime. They just show restaurant owners crying because they can't find (greatly underpaid) workers.

dmix 4y ago

Obviously because of how they targeted people and not that they targeted a demographic. 13.5% of the population has access to $300, which is fine but is probably not a the typical market for expensive bikes, and $300 will only get you 5-20% off (not including a helmet). A lot of these programs are made to sound good on campaign platforms but don’t do much at all IRL Finding a way to subsidize conversion kits + local shops to do it would be a good way to actually help poor people https://www.autoevolution.com/news/skarper-s-revolutionary-e-bike-conversion-kit-may-be-the-best-that-money-will-buy-196485.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/skarper-s-revolutionary-e...

panick21_ 4y ago

You know what bikes are good for poor people. Bikes without electric motors.