4 ms·

All examples of how ancient script can be understood nowadays are due to some connection to modern living languages or side-by-side translations which are conne

All examples of how ancient script can be understood nowadays are due to some connection to modern living languages or side-by-side translations which are connected to some currently used language somehow. Kinda defeats it's own argument. No script survives complete collapse of the culture around it.

Aachen 4y ago
I'm reading a book, fictional but using a lot of real-world concepts, where they send messages to aliens at first in a self-encoding scheme or something (it's been a while since they needed it, I might misremember the name). I figured this can be real by starting like 1 | 2 || 3 ||| 1+2=3 1+1=2 And building up the language further from there. Draw triangles and label the sides for Pythagoras theorem, repeat a couple times to generalize the concept for the word theorem, etc. Nobody did that in ancient times as far as I know, so you're right, but couldn't we make this work without needing context of our culture to survive?
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  One real one I can think of is the Arecibo Message (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message), which starts with an encoding for the numbers one through ten, followed by the atomic number (in that encoding) of the atoms that make up DNA, then the formulas of the chemical compounds in DNA, etc.
- imtringued 4y ago
  What if they did? There are various theories about how ancient Egyptians had a strong preference for using highly specific ratios in their architecture.
- coldpie 4y ago
  There is an excellent short story from the 50s, "Omnilingual" by H. Beam Piper, that explores deciphering a literally alien language. It is mercifully in the public domain because it was written before copyright became infinite in the 1970s. You can read it here: https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/19445 https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/19445 I would be interested to read the book you're talking about, if you have the title! (Your math example reminds me a bit of Lambda Calculus, but I guess you'd have a hard time making a real language out of it.)
  - ralferoo 4y ago
    Sounds to me like one of the Three Body Problem trilogy by Liu Cixin... It's been a while, but maybe that's in Death's End.
    - Aachen 4y ago
      Correct. I didn't mention it earlier for minor spoilers but :shrug:
- namaria 4y ago
  Or, you know, we just accept that just as humanity had a beginning it will also have an end. Our species, and the current civilization iteration, are most likely completely inconsequential and nothing more than a blip over the history of the universe. We are all going to die eventually, our civilization will fade into nothing and all our thoughts and knowledge will be forgotten forever. So what? It's kinda relieving to be honest.
  - tdehnel 4y ago
    But this doesn’t have to be so unless we want it to be. Modern humans are unlike all others in the sense that we have the capacity to extend our species to the end of the universe.
    - namaria 4y ago
      If multi star system civilizations are even possible, chances are we'd get enslaved or erased before we could even make sense of the threat.
  - Aachen 4y ago
    The civilization that doesn't want to survive indefinitely, will indeed die out sooner or later. Whether we're one of those, only time will tell. It's not really a choice or vanity thing; wanting to survive is innate because otherwise we'd already be beaten by those who want it more badly. I don't want to presume anything unnecessarily based on a simple comment, but if > It's kinda relieving [that we'll all die and be forgotten] to be honest. is your true opinion, you should know that people care that you're doing okay. I don't know what the best website is to list for suicide prevention unfortunately but, truly, if you're feeling down as a general state of being, there is no shame in seeking help to become happier!
    - namaria 4y ago
      Lol thanks for caring. But I was raised a Christian and growing up to see the Hubble Deep Field and all advances of cosmology and realize we're likely not on some sort of divinely ordained trial for our souls but just existing for a bit and then gone has been a great realization for me. I very much enjoy being a human monkey and wanna see how it plays out for me.
- radford-neal 4y ago
  Related: Lincos, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincos_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincos_language
deleted 4y ago
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Aachen 4y ago

I'm reading a book, fictional but using a lot of real-world concepts, where they send messages to aliens at first in a self-encoding scheme or something (it's been a while since they needed it, I might misremember the name). I figured this can be real by starting like 1 | 2 || 3 ||| 1+2=3 1+1=2 And building up the language further from there. Draw triangles and label the sides for Pythagoras theorem, repeat a couple times to generalize the concept for the word theorem, etc. Nobody did that in ancient times as far as I know, so you're right, but couldn't we make this work without needing context of our culture to survive?

Cthulhu_ 4y ago
One real one I can think of is the Arecibo Message (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message), which starts with an encoding for the numbers one through ten, followed by the atomic number (in that encoding) of the atoms that make up DNA, then the formulas of the chemical compounds in DNA, etc.
imtringued 4y ago
What if they did? There are various theories about how ancient Egyptians had a strong preference for using highly specific ratios in their architecture.
coldpie 4y ago
There is an excellent short story from the 50s, "Omnilingual" by H. Beam Piper, that explores deciphering a literally alien language. It is mercifully in the public domain because it was written before copyright became infinite in the 1970s. You can read it here: https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/19445 https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/19445 I would be interested to read the book you're talking about, if you have the title! (Your math example reminds me a bit of Lambda Calculus, but I guess you'd have a hard time making a real language out of it.)
- ralferoo 4y ago
  Sounds to me like one of the Three Body Problem trilogy by Liu Cixin... It's been a while, but maybe that's in Death's End.
  - Aachen 4y ago
    Correct. I didn't mention it earlier for minor spoilers but :shrug:
namaria 4y ago
Or, you know, we just accept that just as humanity had a beginning it will also have an end. Our species, and the current civilization iteration, are most likely completely inconsequential and nothing more than a blip over the history of the universe. We are all going to die eventually, our civilization will fade into nothing and all our thoughts and knowledge will be forgotten forever. So what? It's kinda relieving to be honest.
- tdehnel 4y ago
  But this doesn’t have to be so unless we want it to be. Modern humans are unlike all others in the sense that we have the capacity to extend our species to the end of the universe.
  - namaria 4y ago
    If multi star system civilizations are even possible, chances are we'd get enslaved or erased before we could even make sense of the threat.
- Aachen 4y ago
  The civilization that doesn't want to survive indefinitely, will indeed die out sooner or later. Whether we're one of those, only time will tell. It's not really a choice or vanity thing; wanting to survive is innate because otherwise we'd already be beaten by those who want it more badly. I don't want to presume anything unnecessarily based on a simple comment, but if > It's kinda relieving [that we'll all die and be forgotten] to be honest. is your true opinion, you should know that people care that you're doing okay. I don't know what the best website is to list for suicide prevention unfortunately but, truly, if you're feeling down as a general state of being, there is no shame in seeking help to become happier!
  - namaria 4y ago
    Lol thanks for caring. But I was raised a Christian and growing up to see the Hubble Deep Field and all advances of cosmology and realize we're likely not on some sort of divinely ordained trial for our souls but just existing for a bit and then gone has been a great realization for me. I very much enjoy being a human monkey and wanna see how it plays out for me.
radford-neal 4y ago
Related: Lincos, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincos_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincos_language

deleted 4y ago

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