6 ms·

Why is complaining on HN necessary to get proper customer support?

xwdv 4y ago
Because otherwise you have no leverage. If you go through proper channels your request for help will sit rotting in a queue until someone decides to pick up the ticket. If you complain loudly and publicly in a popular forum, everyone’s opinion of the company will degrade the longer your cries go visibly unanswered, so it requires immediate attention. Your request gets elevated to critical.
- refulgentis 4y ago
  I understand this position but after going from support-intensive startup to FAANG, the difference is scale subtly tipping the balance in small ways. There's no equivalent for "overhearing a customer problem" at FAANG scale. It would be dramatically inefficient for software engineers / product managers / those implementing functionality to triage all support tickets. About 0.5% of support tickets are interesting enough to be a case study the way this user has offered. At both large and small scale.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > at FAANG scale and it would be dramatically inefficient for software engineers / product managers / those implementing functionality to triage all support tickets In other words, human labor would be too costly. It not a FAANG thing either, the government does it just as well as most other big entities that are betting they can let some problems slip through without too much loss.
    - refulgentis 4y ago
      There, trivially, aren't enough software engineers on the planet to assign one to every incoming support inquiry.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        Not all problems require software engineers. Just having someone to filter the appropriate problem to the appropriate person is sufficient. For example, > but also slashed our corporate card limits with no explanation and refused to restore them despite our bank writing letters supporting our position. Even a response stating “we do not have the capacity to resolve your issue” is acceptable. Getting black holed or wasting hours of customers’ time in phone trees and getting passed around is not acceptable.
        seb1204 4y ago
        While I agree with your comment I'm not sure how I would feel receiving such a message as a paying customer.
        etiennebausson 4y ago
        Would you feel better being passed around for hours, with the same result? If they can't solve the issue, I would rather know it early and move on.
    - djbusby 4y ago
      Not too costly, just cuts into CxO salary, shareholders value and stuff. The line must go up!
- Victerius 4y ago
  I think the admiral asked a rhetorical question.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    ?
    - Victerius 4y ago
      "Top Gun: Maverick" reference.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        Why do people expect everyone to understand their film references?
        Judgmentality 4y ago
        That's like asking why people don't explain jokes. You get it or you don't. Not everything is meant for you.
        xwdv 4y ago
        It’s a filtering mechanism. If you get it, you’re a cool guy worth talking to. If not, maybe bugger off.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        Cool people watch mainstream commercial cinema?
        btilly 4y ago
        I'm happy to tell anyone who thinks this way that THEY should bugger off. A random movie reference can be expected to not caught by anyone more than 10 years different from you in age, or who is from a different culture. You will also miss some mavericks like me who really don't care much about a lot of popular culture. If you value matching on those criteria over, say, knowing about something interesting, then I'm happy to ignore you.
- m_sahaf 4y ago
  As someone who worked as front-line support and turned into the authority who's asked to resolve complex cases, this is nonsense. They aren't playing Tetris ignoring the queue. It's more likely the front-line staff are overwhelmed and/or don't know how to cut through the corporate hoops/politics to find and deliver the fix, and/or too shy/embarrassed to admit ignorance and having to pass it to the higher-ups for someone who knows how to fix things. It's more likely going in circles because they want to resolve it within their levels without having to escalate it.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    As someone who has worked front-line support: large companies like Stripe purposefully don't create paths in the customer support scripts for resolving issues they don't want to. They're not stupid or blind, they listen to the calls and know these issues crop up. They don't care. Having support staff deal with weird/unusual problems is expensive, more expensive than just having those customers put up with it, or go away and become someone else's problem. Don't blame minimum wage earners for barriers intentionally thrown up by management to reduce labor costs.
    - m_sahaf 4y ago
      > Don't blame minimum wage earners If that's directed at me, I am not blaming anyone. Chill. I'm saying it's a human thing.
  - voidfunc 4y ago
    Posting on a popular forum seems to short-circuit all that and get actual results probably because it starts making some executive squirm. If I'm running a business and losing money because your service is fubar I really don't give a damn that you're all too busy or too ignorant to solve the problem. I'm going to do what I know works and that's basically blast over HN/Twitter/Reddit that your service sucks and has been broke for X duration.
    - m_sahaf 4y ago
      You're right that a customer shouldn't care the staff are too busy or too ignorant. You're also right in how complaining online short-circuits all that to actually receive help. I continuously advocate for the presence of path to higher levels and short-circuits! But it isn't always "the employee of company X responded to me on HN because my post made an executive squirm!" Some people just care and willing to lend a hand in cases where they can help.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
justapassenger 4y ago
Because that’s 90% of reason why tech startups are profitable. Not by having better product than competition, but buy gutting customer support, which is super expensive AND doesn’t scale. And it works until it doesn’t.

xwdv 4y ago

Because otherwise you have no leverage. If you go through proper channels your request for help will sit rotting in a queue until someone decides to pick up the ticket. If you complain loudly and publicly in a popular forum, everyone’s opinion of the company will degrade the longer your cries go visibly unanswered, so it requires immediate attention. Your request gets elevated to critical.

refulgentis 4y ago
I understand this position but after going from support-intensive startup to FAANG, the difference is scale subtly tipping the balance in small ways. There's no equivalent for "overhearing a customer problem" at FAANG scale. It would be dramatically inefficient for software engineers / product managers / those implementing functionality to triage all support tickets. About 0.5% of support tickets are interesting enough to be a case study the way this user has offered. At both large and small scale.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  > at FAANG scale and it would be dramatically inefficient for software engineers / product managers / those implementing functionality to triage all support tickets In other words, human labor would be too costly. It not a FAANG thing either, the government does it just as well as most other big entities that are betting they can let some problems slip through without too much loss.
  - refulgentis 4y ago
    There, trivially, aren't enough software engineers on the planet to assign one to every incoming support inquiry.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Not all problems require software engineers. Just having someone to filter the appropriate problem to the appropriate person is sufficient. For example, > but also slashed our corporate card limits with no explanation and refused to restore them despite our bank writing letters supporting our position. Even a response stating “we do not have the capacity to resolve your issue” is acceptable. Getting black holed or wasting hours of customers’ time in phone trees and getting passed around is not acceptable.
      - seb1204 4y ago
        While I agree with your comment I'm not sure how I would feel receiving such a message as a paying customer.
        etiennebausson 4y ago
        Would you feel better being passed around for hours, with the same result? If they can't solve the issue, I would rather know it early and move on.
  - djbusby 4y ago
    Not too costly, just cuts into CxO salary, shareholders value and stuff. The line must go up!
Victerius 4y ago
I think the admiral asked a rhetorical question.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  ?
  - Victerius 4y ago
    "Top Gun: Maverick" reference.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      Why do people expect everyone to understand their film references?
      - Judgmentality 4y ago
        That's like asking why people don't explain jokes. You get it or you don't. Not everything is meant for you.
      - xwdv 4y ago
        It’s a filtering mechanism. If you get it, you’re a cool guy worth talking to. If not, maybe bugger off.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        Cool people watch mainstream commercial cinema?
        btilly 4y ago
        I'm happy to tell anyone who thinks this way that THEY should bugger off. A random movie reference can be expected to not caught by anyone more than 10 years different from you in age, or who is from a different culture. You will also miss some mavericks like me who really don't care much about a lot of popular culture. If you value matching on those criteria over, say, knowing about something interesting, then I'm happy to ignore you.
m_sahaf 4y ago
As someone who worked as front-line support and turned into the authority who's asked to resolve complex cases, this is nonsense. They aren't playing Tetris ignoring the queue. It's more likely the front-line staff are overwhelmed and/or don't know how to cut through the corporate hoops/politics to find and deliver the fix, and/or too shy/embarrassed to admit ignorance and having to pass it to the higher-ups for someone who knows how to fix things. It's more likely going in circles because they want to resolve it within their levels without having to escalate it.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  As someone who has worked front-line support: large companies like Stripe purposefully don't create paths in the customer support scripts for resolving issues they don't want to. They're not stupid or blind, they listen to the calls and know these issues crop up. They don't care. Having support staff deal with weird/unusual problems is expensive, more expensive than just having those customers put up with it, or go away and become someone else's problem. Don't blame minimum wage earners for barriers intentionally thrown up by management to reduce labor costs.
  - m_sahaf 4y ago
    > Don't blame minimum wage earners If that's directed at me, I am not blaming anyone. Chill. I'm saying it's a human thing.
- voidfunc 4y ago
  Posting on a popular forum seems to short-circuit all that and get actual results probably because it starts making some executive squirm. If I'm running a business and losing money because your service is fubar I really don't give a damn that you're all too busy or too ignorant to solve the problem. I'm going to do what I know works and that's basically blast over HN/Twitter/Reddit that your service sucks and has been broke for X duration.
  - m_sahaf 4y ago
    You're right that a customer shouldn't care the staff are too busy or too ignorant. You're also right in how complaining online short-circuits all that to actually receive help. I continuously advocate for the presence of path to higher levels and short-circuits! But it isn't always "the employee of company X responded to me on HN because my post made an executive squirm!" Some people just care and willing to lend a hand in cases where they can help.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

justapassenger 4y ago

Because that’s 90% of reason why tech startups are profitable. Not by having better product than competition, but buy gutting customer support, which is super expensive AND doesn’t scale. And it works until it doesn’t.