4 ms·

> Superconductors ferry electricity between Long Island and Manhattan... WHAT!? Did I sleep for 50 years or is somebody stretching the definition of supercondu

> Superconductors ferry electricity between Long Island and Manhattan... WHAT!? Did I sleep for 50 years or is somebody stretching the definition of superconductor?

klyrs 4y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holbrook_Superconductor_Project https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holbrook_Superconductor_Proj... News to me, too. We've only been under a rock for 14 years.
- intrepidhero 4y ago
  They spent $47 million[1] on 600m of cable that can do 574MVA. It's underground and cooled with liquid nitrogen. TIL. On the one hand, I'm impressed. I didn't think we were close to this sort of thing being feasible at all. On the other, it sounds like a huge money pit. Ongoing maintenance of buried cryogenic cooling systems can not be cheap. [1] https://www.energy.gov/oe/downloads/long-island-hts-power-cable https://www.energy.gov/oe/downloads/long-island-hts-power-ca...
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    I imagine the maintenance is the same as with any cable. If it fails, you dig it up and fix the broken part.
    - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
      With superconducters there's a phase transition if they rise above their operable temperatures. This can introduce sudden forces. In LHC for example loss of cooling has led to substantial physical damage to the magnets. I imagine a simple transmission line isn't quite so likely to be violent, but there's probably some bad things that can happen with this thing if it bonks.
      - marcosdumay 4y ago
        Yes, there will be some mild violence underground if the cable fails. Probably more because of the liquid nitrogen than the electricity itself. Electricity stops almost instantly, as superconductors tend to be very bad conductors above their operational temperature. If that happens, you pull the cable out, and fix the broken part (probably replacing some of the cable). You may need to patch some pavement too, if the cable is superficial.
  - bilsbie 4y ago
    How much current can it carry? I saw 138,000 volts.
    - chinabot 4y ago
      V=IR, I=V/R, R = 0 , I = Well A Very Very Big Number if all goes well And it should stay cool as Power = Volts x Amps
    - dtgriscom 4y ago
      574MVA / 138kV = 4160A.
      - bilsbie 4y ago
        What is mva? Oh basically watts?
        marcosdumay 4y ago
        It's a higher number than the carried power, because AC electricity has those stages when the voltage is smaller than the nominal value. (Unless it's a DC line, then they are the same.)
        kamilner 4y ago
        Surely this would be a DC line, right? AC induces resistance in superconductors because it necessarily induces a changing magnetic field, iirc (or maybe that's only particular types of superconductors). Edit: Found this, which isn't specific but refers to it as a three-phase transmission cable which implies it is indeed AC http://www.jicable.org/2007/Actes/Session_A3/JIC07_A34.pdf http://www.jicable.org/2007/Actes/Session_A3/JIC07_A34.pdf
        klyrs 4y ago
        http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Solids/scbc2.html http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Solids/scbc2.html AC doesn't directly induce resistance, no. But there's a shared budget of current and magnetic field, and if you blow the budget the wire becomes a normal conductor.
balsam 4y ago
If you are Captain America, you might not be pleased to find out that the project was once called Hydra: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11907-superconducting-power-line-to-shore-up-new-york-grid/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11907-superconducting...
LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
There is another one in Germany since 2014, https://phys.org/news/2014-05-longest-superconducting-cable-worldwide.html https://phys.org/news/2014-05-longest-superconducting-cable-... As I've read from other sources (in german) it's not perfect, more of a prototype, because it "leaks". The tanks need to be refilled with about 30 metric tons of LN2 every 3 weeks. Anyway, at the time of building (2013) the cost was 13.5 million Euros for its length of 1000 meters, for 3 phases and up to 40 megawatt capacity at 10.000 volts. The operators say it works reliably, and the leakyness could be avoided with the next builds, which are planned. And would make sense, because it's more compact, and enables more efficient 'smart grid'. Especially in densely built up areas, like downtown, where this is.

> Superconductors ferry electricity between Long Island and Manhattan... WHAT!? Did I sleep for 50 years or is somebody stretching the definition of superconductor?

klyrs 4y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holbrook_Superconductor_Project https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holbrook_Superconductor_Proj... News to me, too. We've only been under a rock for 14 years.

intrepidhero 4y ago
They spent $47 million[1] on 600m of cable that can do 574MVA. It's underground and cooled with liquid nitrogen. TIL. On the one hand, I'm impressed. I didn't think we were close to this sort of thing being feasible at all. On the other, it sounds like a huge money pit. Ongoing maintenance of buried cryogenic cooling systems can not be cheap. [1] https://www.energy.gov/oe/downloads/long-island-hts-power-cable https://www.energy.gov/oe/downloads/long-island-hts-power-ca...
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  I imagine the maintenance is the same as with any cable. If it fails, you dig it up and fix the broken part.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
    With superconducters there's a phase transition if they rise above their operable temperatures. This can introduce sudden forces. In LHC for example loss of cooling has led to substantial physical damage to the magnets. I imagine a simple transmission line isn't quite so likely to be violent, but there's probably some bad things that can happen with this thing if it bonks.
    - marcosdumay 4y ago
      Yes, there will be some mild violence underground if the cable fails. Probably more because of the liquid nitrogen than the electricity itself. Electricity stops almost instantly, as superconductors tend to be very bad conductors above their operational temperature. If that happens, you pull the cable out, and fix the broken part (probably replacing some of the cable). You may need to patch some pavement too, if the cable is superficial.
- bilsbie 4y ago
  How much current can it carry? I saw 138,000 volts.
  - chinabot 4y ago
    V=IR, I=V/R, R = 0 , I = Well A Very Very Big Number if all goes well And it should stay cool as Power = Volts x Amps
  - dtgriscom 4y ago
    574MVA / 138kV = 4160A.
    - bilsbie 4y ago
      What is mva? Oh basically watts?
      - marcosdumay 4y ago
        It's a higher number than the carried power, because AC electricity has those stages when the voltage is smaller than the nominal value. (Unless it's a DC line, then they are the same.)
        kamilner 4y ago
        Surely this would be a DC line, right? AC induces resistance in superconductors because it necessarily induces a changing magnetic field, iirc (or maybe that's only particular types of superconductors). Edit: Found this, which isn't specific but refers to it as a three-phase transmission cable which implies it is indeed AC http://www.jicable.org/2007/Actes/Session_A3/JIC07_A34.pdf http://www.jicable.org/2007/Actes/Session_A3/JIC07_A34.pdf
        klyrs 4y ago
        http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Solids/scbc2.html http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Solids/scbc2.html AC doesn't directly induce resistance, no. But there's a shared budget of current and magnetic field, and if you blow the budget the wire becomes a normal conductor.

balsam 4y ago

If you are Captain America, you might not be pleased to find out that the project was once called Hydra: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11907-superconducting-power-line-to-shore-up-new-york-grid/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11907-superconducting...

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago

There is another one in Germany since 2014, https://phys.org/news/2014-05-longest-superconducting-cable-worldwide.html https://phys.org/news/2014-05-longest-superconducting-cable-... As I've read from other sources (in german) it's not perfect, more of a prototype, because it "leaks". The tanks need to be refilled with about 30 metric tons of LN2 every 3 weeks. Anyway, at the time of building (2013) the cost was 13.5 million Euros for its length of 1000 meters, for 3 phases and up to 40 megawatt capacity at 10.000 volts. The operators say it works reliably, and the leakyness could be avoided with the next builds, which are planned. And would make sense, because it's more compact, and enables more efficient 'smart grid'. Especially in densely built up areas, like downtown, where this is.