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I can’t make the argument a previous head of state should be mandated from working where the free market takes them. I also can’t argue that the decisions of G

I can’t make the argument a previous head of state should be mandated from working where the free market takes them. I also can’t argue that the decisions of Germany’s leadership make a ton of sense. Or rather I can, the economic argument and Germany not likely to deal with a Russia near home it isn’t able to easily deal with (outside of MAD.) That calculus makes sense to me I get and even still agree with the principle. But you also have to look out for your national security and it really seems like Germany wasn’t looking out for anyone but it’s self here. Germany faces no serious conventional threat from Russia nor does it currently have competing spheres of influence. However as part of NATO and the EU does. So it looks to be pretty clear that the Germans do not consider that they and, say, Lithuania share the same goals.

mistrial9 4y ago
germans and russians have been fighting for 1000 years. Take the calendar and mark the times when they were not fighting. Constructive engagement is sane; endless war from all sides is not sane
- nradov 4y ago
  How would you propose to prevent endless war between Germans and Russians in the future? I mean without carving up Eastern Europe between themselves, that is. So far engagement with Russia hasn't been constructive. Believing that this will change seems like hope triumphing over experience. In the long run, a steady policy of containment with occasional minor outbreaks of violence might be the best we can realistically achieve.
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    I have heard that the French are excellent cooks - perhaps they know about this "carving up" you speak of?
enaaem 4y ago
Russia's expansion is definitely a national security thread to Germany. The thing is that Germany didn't believed that Russia would expand. It was a gross miscalculation on Germany's side. Believing promises and neglecting capabilities. If Russia takes Ukraine their population grows to 180 Million. With the Baltics and Belarus they will be near near 200 million. Expecting Poland (at 40 Mln) to hold the Russians of is ridiculous.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  I think this may be a mischaracterization. Germany believed that, knows really, that it is richer economically and has a tech gap thanks to NATO over them. Germanys stance was that Russia will piss and moan as it’s elite slowly lose their autocratic regime to a Republican one (similar to South Korea and Taiwan.) I’m not convinced this has changed and it is my opinion that German policy is a pretty obvious open secret that Ukraine and Russia is there problem. You can see this in their reaction to the invasion where they stalled with hold off rhetoric because they couldn’t believe we’re taking this seriously. So it wasn’t ignorance that Russia would bully the two smaller “Russians” it was a calculated risk and an accepted cost of doing business.

mistrial9 4y ago

germans and russians have been fighting for 1000 years. Take the calendar and mark the times when they were not fighting. Constructive engagement is sane; endless war from all sides is not sane

nradov 4y ago
How would you propose to prevent endless war between Germans and Russians in the future? I mean without carving up Eastern Europe between themselves, that is. So far engagement with Russia hasn't been constructive. Believing that this will change seems like hope triumphing over experience. In the long run, a steady policy of containment with occasional minor outbreaks of violence might be the best we can realistically achieve.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  I have heard that the French are excellent cooks - perhaps they know about this "carving up" you speak of?

enaaem 4y ago

Russia's expansion is definitely a national security thread to Germany. The thing is that Germany didn't believed that Russia would expand. It was a gross miscalculation on Germany's side. Believing promises and neglecting capabilities. If Russia takes Ukraine their population grows to 180 Million. With the Baltics and Belarus they will be near near 200 million. Expecting Poland (at 40 Mln) to hold the Russians of is ridiculous.

edgyquant 4y ago
I think this may be a mischaracterization. Germany believed that, knows really, that it is richer economically and has a tech gap thanks to NATO over them. Germanys stance was that Russia will piss and moan as it’s elite slowly lose their autocratic regime to a Republican one (similar to South Korea and Taiwan.) I’m not convinced this has changed and it is my opinion that German policy is a pretty obvious open secret that Ukraine and Russia is there problem. You can see this in their reaction to the invasion where they stalled with hold off rhetoric because they couldn’t believe we’re taking this seriously. So it wasn’t ignorance that Russia would bully the two smaller “Russians” it was a calculated risk and an accepted cost of doing business.