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There is a much better option for HN crowd: Buy a large/modern computer monitor and connect it to your homelab’s media server. Literally there is no need for
by DethNinja 4y ago
There is a much better option for HN crowd:
Buy a large/modern computer monitor and connect it to your homelab’s media server.
Literally there is no need for a smart TV so long as you are capable of setting up a small homelab.
- dwighttk 4y agoEh, I’d rather get that ad subsidy and never connect the tv to the internet
- dudul 4y agoSure, until we reach the point of "always connected" TVs that will work.
- teddyh 4y agoTVs will soon, if not already, come with cell phones; the ad revenue is larger than what they are charged for the cell phone IP traffic. TVs also reportedly use any open WiFi they can see, and use DoH to make DNS-based ad blocking impossible.
- littlecranky67 4y agoThe "they use any open wifi they can see" myth has been brought up on HN multiple times, and never did anybody provide any credible proof of this rumour (that started as a single reddit comment).
- teddyh 4y agoI would be surprised if modern TVs didn’t connect to open WiFis; there is literally no reason for TVs not to do this, and every incentive to do it. Even if we discount the ads as a motivator, it’s still a simple solution to get people’s stuff configured automatically.
- littlecranky67 4y agoLegal issues aside, there might be loss of company image and also privacy related matter (I can run an open wifi to see the data that my neighbour TV sends). And to add to this: There has been no proof ever that modern TVs do this, and it would be quite easy for anyone/journalists/reviewers to check this (just run an open wifi and monitor it).
- netsharc 4y agoAnd I would be surprised if they did... the belief in these sorts of tech urban legends/conspiracy theories that some seemingly techie people have is cringeworthy. And no, Facebook/Instagram aren't listening to users either, it would need too much bandwidth/server power to process all those conversations, and if you say "they can do the speech recognition on the users' phones", the majority of users use budget phones that don't have that sort of power.
- teddyh 4y agoThis reminds me of the pre-Snowden times, where people often assumed that governments widely recorded internet traffic, since they had both the capability and the motivation, but people like you dismissed it as “urban legends/conspiracy theories” because there wasn’t any hard evidence.
- netsharc 4y agoHow do you know what I did in regards to the Five Eyes? I wonder what's easier to check and verify, a secret government tapping of the Internet, or if the TVs in millions of people's living rooms are trying to connect to open WiFi networks...
- teddyh 4y ago(I did not mention or claim anything about you personally.) You’re right in that this should be easier to find. But I haven’t seen any concerted effort to buy N number of smart TVs and do security analysis on them in order to find something like this.
- rovr138 4y agoHow about one that can do 5G? Samsung and Huawei are doing 5G TV, https://www.techradar.com/news/samsungs-5g-8k-tv-promises-to-make-netflix-streaming-faster-than-ever https://www.techradar.com/news/samsungs-5g-8k-tv-promises-to... https://www.techradar.com/news/huawei-is-developing-a-5g-8k-tv-because-thats-apparently-a-thing-now https://www.techradar.com/news/huawei-is-developing-a-5g-8k-...
- _23sd 4y agoWorth noting that these articles are from 2019 and there hasn't been much talk of 5G TVs since. Aside from plain old 5G hype, SK Telecom wants 5G TVs as part of their envisioned ATSC/5G convergence that would bring more OTT services to broadcast TV (using their 5G network, naturally). This is mostly for the Korean market, since in North America broadcast TV is less popular and 5G networks have less capacity.
- rovr138 4y agoAlready, https://www.techradar.com/news/samsungs-5g-8k-tv-promises-to-make-netflix-streaming-faster-than-ever https://www.techradar.com/news/samsungs-5g-8k-tv-promises-to... https://www.techradar.com/news/huawei-is-developing-a-5g-8k-tv-because-thats-apparently-a-thing-now https://www.techradar.com/news/huawei-is-developing-a-5g-8k-...
- a4isms 4y agoFor now, this appears to be feasible. And it will probably stay feasible as long as the number of people who do it is relatively miniscule. But economics being economics, we’re freeloading off the customers who hook their smart TVs up to the internet and provide manufacturers with enough revenue that they don’t care about us. But should the practice become widespread and manufacturers notice a material impact on their revenues, or should growth stall and manufacturers start looking to squeeze more revenue out of customers, they will start embedding SIM cards in TVs that can’t be disabled, and work out deals with wireless carriers to have a private data channel as Amazon does with its kindles. my 4K “smart” TV is the first I ever bought, and I believe the last. By the time I will want to replace it, I believe manufacturers will have closed this “loophole” and it will be impossible to keep a new TV from phoning home.
- littlecranky67 4y ago> they will start embedding SIM cards in TVs that can’t be disabled Open up the TV and solder the antenna to ground. If the TVs refuse to work when there is no Signal, good luck with customer complaints - here in Germany, we have huge black-spots with no reception whatsoever (mostly rural areas, but people still live in those).
- _aavaa_ 4y agoIf the % of people who don't connect their smart TV to internet is small, then the % of people who will go through the trouble of soldering their TV (and voiding their warranty) is essentially 0%.
- littlecranky67 4y agoThe whole "void warranty if any changes are made" is mostly not enforcable in Europe and as I understand it in some part in the US. In Germany, you would just have to proof that your change is not the culprit of the damage. I.e. if your OLED panel breaks, you can still claim warranty.
- 4y ago
- smileybarry 4y agoSome vendors are also just less scummy in turning it off and the extent of ad services. Sony TVs are Google TV-based and explicitly ask for Samba (not SMB) TV analytics (and can be declined), and you can just outright disable the APK in settings. No ads in menus like Samsung (you do get the Google TV "recommendations" but that's a whole other problem).
- amelius 4y agoI recently got a small tuner box from my cable company. It requires both an ethernet connection and an ethernet-enabled HDMI cable ... The nice part is that I can control the tuner with the same remote as the TV. The not so nice part: my TV is now connected to the internet.
- dsr_ 4y agoBought a cheap HiSense TV for my kid to use as a big monitor. It literally will not work for any input source -- including OTA TV -- until it has been hooked to a network where it can register itself. It appears to work afterwards without a network connection... but I cannot recommend HiSense at all.
- jacquesm 4y agoReturn it as defective. If enough people do that they'll get the message. An internet connection should not be a requirement for buying an appliance.
- kennend3 4y agoThis! you see post after post of people complaining about things but doing little about it. Returning products as "defective" is pretty hard on manufacturers as stores do not like this happening.
- jacquesm 4y agoThe asymmetry between the costs for the returns process and the 'happy path' of sales is such that even a relatively small percentage would throw a giant spanner in the works. You need to sell three more to make up for one return or so.
- M95D 4y agoI have a Philips smart TV. I didn't connect it to the internet. Every week it nags me with a popup message telling me how much I'm missing if I don't connect it. Technically, it's not defective; it still works without the internet. But think about it... What if the nag would pop up daily? Or every hour?
- theandrewbailey 4y agoJust don't use a smart monitor. Yeah, those will spy on you, too. https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-electronics-announces-m8-the-new-and-stylish-smart-monitor-series https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-electronics-announce...
- nicbou 4y agoFrankly at this point I'd just avoid buying anything from Samsung. If there's one company that's displayed consistent disregard for data privacy, it's them.
- moepstar 4y agoAdd Sony to that list as well - and not just disregard for privacy, even total disrespect to their buyers, repeatedly..
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- zoba 4y agoYou can find these by searching “conference room monitor”
- designium 4y agoDepending on the size and brand, it's price is similar to "smart TVs". The bigger ones are costlier.
- wongarsu 4y agoOf course, after all smart TVs have an ongoing revenue stream from ads and analytics. Despite having more capabilities, Smart TVs are also regularly cheaper than equivalent "dumb TVs".
- reaperducer 4y agoSmart TVs are also regularly cheaper than equivalent "dumb TVs". Only if you don't value quality. A did a price comparison about a year ago, using Best Buy and B&H. The plain display panels from B&H were either the same, or only marginally more expensive than the equivalent "smart" televisions from Best Buy. People on HN too often parrot that Vizeo CEO's claim that his TVs are only cheap because of all the spying they do. While true, it only holds up in you're interested in watching a Vizeo-quality TV.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Gigachad 4y agoI’d honestly rather watch adverts than have to run a home server again.
- bilekas 4y agoControversial .. Would you care to expand on that ? I don't know anyone who would prefer to see adverts compared to plugging in a NAS / DLNA ? These days there is nothing more than plug and play..
- sumtechguy 4y agoI can comment on that. But I get the sentiment. For my setup there always seems to be some small thing that is wrong all the time. Fix - fine for a few months... borked. When you just want to watch something. I currently have to go thru the system and figure out why it is not acting like an appliance. Start up is constantly an issue with my setup. So when anyone in the house wants to watch something they are coming to find me. Current suspect is the hdmi vs the tv I have is not setting up the connection correctly. For the amount of media I own it is not feasible to go back to the old system though so I stay. Also adverts suck. But I totally understand the sentiment.
- Gigachad 4y agoI ran a home server last year with jellyfin, nextcloud, torrent server, etc. I ended up spending more time and money on the server than watching and paying for the actual content. And then the thing was always broken in some way.
- bilekas 4y agoI see, I guess I have been lucky in that regard.. I have my NAS plugged in, libtorrent with autoirssi and just a plex server running for the actual streaming though.
- jayd16 4y agoIts not about what it takes to do it yourself, its about the upkeep required to keep the family happily using it.
- ape4 4y agoWhat about over-the-air TV
- wombat-man 4y agoJust need a tuner? Although I haven't used one in a while. I use a smart TV that isn't connected to internet.
- JohnFen 4y agoNot an option everywhere. Where I am, the digital switchover meant that most TV stations can no longer be received over the air.
- scarface74 4y agoWhere can I get a 65 inch computer monitor? I’ve done the homelab media server. I did my first one back in 2006 with a Mac Mini running Front Row. But this is 2022. If you want a set top box without tracking, just buy an AppleTV. It cost more because Apple makes money off of hardware and not advertising. Yes I know the reports about Apple getting even deeper into advertising. Yes it saddens me.
- wongarsu 4y agoDigital Signage Displays are basically fancy monitors available as large as you want. But they'll cost you a pretty penny, being designed for 24/7 operation and without the ad-subsidy of smart TVs. Maybe hunt for a used one. Or conference room monitors, as suggested elsewhere in the thread.
- bluGill 4y agoDigital signage displays target a market that includes safety information in factories. if the TV there shows an ad instead of the safety content people may die.
- noisy_boy 4y agohttps://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-75-4k-interactive-touch-monitor-d7523qt/apd/210-beqy/monitors-monitor-accessories https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-75-4k-interactive-touch... Not cheap though.
- LinuxBender 4y agoBeing an interactive touch monitor is likely part of the cost.
- jayd16 4y agoTouch screen? Probably looks like crap considering picture quality is not the primary concern.
- blueflow 4y agoNot having an TV is also a viable option. Around 2016 my last TV broke down and i have adapted to live without it. When i say 'TV' i also mean to include Netflix and Hulu and other services serving the same purpose.
- bjoli 4y agoI haven't had one since 2006. I haven't missed it, nor do I watch any streaming services apart from the occasional documentary that generally leaves me disappointed.
- blueflow 4y agoI agree that the quality is disappointingly bad, and this was the main driver behind my decision to not buy an replacement.
- vonseel 4y agoMaybe you're just not TV people. That's OK. But plenty of people on the other side would say the Golden Age of TV is still ongoing. There are more shows and productions being made than ever, maybe that's led to an abundance of mediocre content, but there have been many great shows made in the last 10 years. Try Kingdom on Peacock.
- scarface74 4y agoSo, yes the alternative is not to use a device used by 95% homes in the US. What next the old Slashdot meme - “I haven’t owned a TV in 10 years. Do people still watch TV?”
- blueflow 4y agoThis is a non-argument - just because most people do it doesn't mean you have to do it, too. Edit: The slippery slope: 95% of people are straight.
- 4y ago
- tsvetkov 4y agoThe existing options for monitors, suitable for use as a TV, are extremely limited. For TVs 55" and 65" are common, for monitors there were just a few, which were dumb TVs basically. And then there are bigger sizes, different types of panels (there are no 4K QD-OLED monitors for example) that are not available for monitors. I think, if telemetry and ads are concern, buying TV without connecting it to the internet (using Apple TV or a homelab media server) is a better choice for many TV buyers.
- jayd16 4y agoWho's making 65" 4k OLED monitors?