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It is not just the protein that is a limiting factor in meat production. Especially not for grazing animals. And 20x less seems like a very high estimate compar

by bjoli 4y ago

It is not just the protein that is a limiting factor in meat production. Especially not for grazing animals. And 20x less seems like a very high estimate compared to the current protein king, the soybean. What I am saying is: a.sustainable protein will make the largest impact in chicken, but very little impact for the kind of feed and land use we are discussing. Vall and slåtter (I have no idea about the English terms) are almost exclusively used as feed for grazing animals. And even with chickens I must ask: Is SCP competitive with insects? I have been betting on insects becoming the next big thing in animal feed for some time. 20x less land use per gram of protein compared to soy is no problem for something like the black soldier fly larvae. They are well above 50x.

DoctorOetker 4y ago
the costs of grazing land and fence maintenance etc fall away if you can just raise the animals in a cubicle... you are not explaining where your larvae are getting their proteins... I don't believe they can essentially thrive on CO2 and hydrogen...
- bjoli 4y ago
  When I ate insects I fed them compost. I tried one kind that I could feed rest products from forrestry, but I didn't care much for the taste. The discussion of SCP in feed is the same as soy beans: we can eat it ourselves. Why accept a 3-10x efficiency loss by feeding it to chicken and pigs? We are already eating SCP, and we are bound to eat more of it in the coming decades.
  - DoctorOetker 4y ago
    I said so much myself: > It will obviously still be 10x more efficient to eat the single cell protein directly than to eat single-cell-protein fed animal protein, which would in turn be about 2x as efficient as eating vegetable protein. (so you merely reiterate what I wrote) and the paragraph right before it > We observe it is very hard to convince people to switch from carnivore habits to vegetarian habits. Presumably it will be similarily difficult to convince carnivore population to voluntarily switch to eating single cell protein. which answers your question: > Why accept a 3-10x efficiency loss by feeding it to chicken and pigs? Because citizens enjoy autonomy and the state doesn't force people to eat SCP directly. In the knowledge (not in their defense) that a large group of people eating meat refuse to switch to vegetable protein today, it is naive to think they would however switch to eating SCP directly.

by bjoli 4y ago

DoctorOetker 4y ago

the costs of grazing land and fence maintenance etc fall away if you can just raise the animals in a cubicle... you are not explaining where your larvae are getting their proteins... I don't believe they can essentially thrive on CO2 and hydrogen...

bjoli 4y ago
When I ate insects I fed them compost. I tried one kind that I could feed rest products from forrestry, but I didn't care much for the taste. The discussion of SCP in feed is the same as soy beans: we can eat it ourselves. Why accept a 3-10x efficiency loss by feeding it to chicken and pigs? We are already eating SCP, and we are bound to eat more of it in the coming decades.
- DoctorOetker 4y ago
  I said so much myself: > It will obviously still be 10x more efficient to eat the single cell protein directly than to eat single-cell-protein fed animal protein, which would in turn be about 2x as efficient as eating vegetable protein. (so you merely reiterate what I wrote) and the paragraph right before it > We observe it is very hard to convince people to switch from carnivore habits to vegetarian habits. Presumably it will be similarily difficult to convince carnivore population to voluntarily switch to eating single cell protein. which answers your question: > Why accept a 3-10x efficiency loss by feeding it to chicken and pigs? Because citizens enjoy autonomy and the state doesn't force people to eat SCP directly. In the knowledge (not in their defense) that a large group of people eating meat refuse to switch to vegetable protein today, it is naive to think they would however switch to eating SCP directly.