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Eh, a mathematical puzzle is being solved via brute-force. My intent was to explain briefly that the problem/puzzle is by nature computationally-intensive to th

Eh, a mathematical puzzle is being solved via brute-force. My intent was to explain briefly that the problem/puzzle is by nature computationally-intensive to the extent that brute-force is the most efficient way to solve/complete it.

dodomodo 4y ago
But the whole usage of the math puzzle is that you have to solve it using brute force, If there was a better way it won't be useful. So yeah the whole point is just guessing numbers not solving the puzzle.
lottin 4y ago
It's a guessing game. Referring to a guessing game as a complex mathematical problem is misleading.
- shukantpal 4y ago
  False. The problem is so complex we have to resort to guessing / brute force to solve it; if it's so easy, give me a closed-form solution so I can become rich.
  - Josde 4y ago
    While that is true, I think the point that other users are trying to make is that wording it as "a complex mathematical problem being solved" makes it look like that work is doing something useful when it really is not.
    - lottin 4y ago
      It's worse than that, they're aren't solving anything at all. They're taking part in a lottery, in which participants have to guess a number, and the winner gets to update the ledger. Nobody is solving complex mathematical problems.
      - WFHRenaissance 4y ago
        They’re brute-forcing the solution to a mathematical puzzle.
      - baobabKoodaa 4y ago
        pixelbro 4y ago
        Oh, get off it. He's not "pretending to disagree", merely providing further context for the anti-utility of the PoW algorithm. The point is that the colloquial understanding of "solving a problem" implies more utility than what is actually happening, which is equivalent to guessing a random number. The mere statement that a problem is being solved at all implies that useful work is being done, which is not the case and the parent comment is right to point that out.
        baobabKoodaa 4y ago
        > Oh, get off it. He's not "pretending to disagree", merely providing further context for the anti-utility of the PoW algorithm. The point is that the colloquial understanding of "solving a problem" implies more utility than what is actually happening, which is equivalent to guessing a random number. The mere statement that a problem is being solved at all implies that useful work is being done, which is not the case and the parent comment is right to point that out. You're either trying to confuse others intentionally, or if I'm interpreting charitably, you are merely confused yourself. In neither case is this attitude warranted. You just re-explained that the crux of the issue is useful work vs non-useful work. This is exactly the same point that Josde explained. This point was contested by lottin. I don't understand why they would contest it, as they very clearly agree with that point (based on reading other messages they wrote in this thread). According to you, lottin is not "pretending to disagree", they are "merely providing further context". This is very obviously not true. Either you are lying on purpose or you are confused, maybe you didn't read their message properly. Here it is again for you to read: > It's worse than that, they're aren't solving anything at all. They're taking part in a lottery, in which participants have to guess a number, and the winner gets to update the ledger. Nobody is solving complex mathematical problems. Does that sound to you like "yes, I agree, and here is some further context"? Obviously not. That message is expressing strong disagreement, not further agreement. Please stop spreading misinformation.
  - lottin 4y ago
    The fact that there isn't a closed-form solution doesn't make it a complex mathematical problem. Guessing a number isn't a complex mathematical number, it's just guessing a number.
    - fzfaa 4y ago
      afaik the solution that has to be "guessed" is not random. We just don't know how to get to it without brute force.
      - WFHRenaissance 4y ago
        Brute-force solutions are still solutions :)

dodomodo 4y ago

But the whole usage of the math puzzle is that you have to solve it using brute force, If there was a better way it won't be useful. So yeah the whole point is just guessing numbers not solving the puzzle.

lottin 4y ago

It's a guessing game. Referring to a guessing game as a complex mathematical problem is misleading.

shukantpal 4y ago
False. The problem is so complex we have to resort to guessing / brute force to solve it; if it's so easy, give me a closed-form solution so I can become rich.
- Josde 4y ago
  While that is true, I think the point that other users are trying to make is that wording it as "a complex mathematical problem being solved" makes it look like that work is doing something useful when it really is not.
  - lottin 4y ago
    It's worse than that, they're aren't solving anything at all. They're taking part in a lottery, in which participants have to guess a number, and the winner gets to update the ledger. Nobody is solving complex mathematical problems.
    - WFHRenaissance 4y ago
      They’re brute-forcing the solution to a mathematical puzzle.
    - baobabKoodaa 4y ago
      - pixelbro 4y ago
        Oh, get off it. He's not "pretending to disagree", merely providing further context for the anti-utility of the PoW algorithm. The point is that the colloquial understanding of "solving a problem" implies more utility than what is actually happening, which is equivalent to guessing a random number. The mere statement that a problem is being solved at all implies that useful work is being done, which is not the case and the parent comment is right to point that out.
        baobabKoodaa 4y ago
        > Oh, get off it. He's not "pretending to disagree", merely providing further context for the anti-utility of the PoW algorithm. The point is that the colloquial understanding of "solving a problem" implies more utility than what is actually happening, which is equivalent to guessing a random number. The mere statement that a problem is being solved at all implies that useful work is being done, which is not the case and the parent comment is right to point that out. You're either trying to confuse others intentionally, or if I'm interpreting charitably, you are merely confused yourself. In neither case is this attitude warranted. You just re-explained that the crux of the issue is useful work vs non-useful work. This is exactly the same point that Josde explained. This point was contested by lottin. I don't understand why they would contest it, as they very clearly agree with that point (based on reading other messages they wrote in this thread). According to you, lottin is not "pretending to disagree", they are "merely providing further context". This is very obviously not true. Either you are lying on purpose or you are confused, maybe you didn't read their message properly. Here it is again for you to read: > It's worse than that, they're aren't solving anything at all. They're taking part in a lottery, in which participants have to guess a number, and the winner gets to update the ledger. Nobody is solving complex mathematical problems. Does that sound to you like "yes, I agree, and here is some further context"? Obviously not. That message is expressing strong disagreement, not further agreement. Please stop spreading misinformation.
- lottin 4y ago
  The fact that there isn't a closed-form solution doesn't make it a complex mathematical problem. Guessing a number isn't a complex mathematical number, it's just guessing a number.
  - fzfaa 4y ago
    afaik the solution that has to be "guessed" is not random. We just don't know how to get to it without brute force.
    - WFHRenaissance 4y ago
      Brute-force solutions are still solutions :)