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According to the EU website's : "REPowerEU is the European Commission’s plan to make Europe independent from Russian fossil fuels well before 2030, in light of

by wiz21c 4y ago

According to the EU website's : "REPowerEU is the European Commission’s plan to make Europe independent from Russian fossil fuels well before 2030, in light of Russia's invasion of Ukraine." and "In the short-term, we need alternative supplies of gas, oil and coal as quickly as possible"... So it's about a third of the EU consumption and it may include just changing supplier, not reducing oil...

ben_w 4y ago
I think that's implicit with the quoted timelines: > 2030 (45% renewables) and 2050 (75% renewables)
- dispat0r 4y ago
  It's not going to happen, the production costs alone don't permit that.
  - anovikov 4y ago
    Main cost driver is the price of green hydrogen. It is already cheaper than the natural gas prices we are paying now (equivalent of about $1700 per 1000cm of natural gas equivalent vs about $2500 we pay), by 2030 it should be down to $500 per 1000cm natural gas equivalent and that's about 2019 price.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Production costs are easily low enough to go further and faster than that. Logistics and economics may slow things down, but it’s not a cost problem right now.
    - anovikov 4y ago
      Yes and no. For raw energy production, it is dirt cheap. Storage and transformation is a bitch though, and so far costs are quite high there although they are getting better. Given that we will need to increase green hydrogen production by 400x in 9 years and further 4x in next 20 years, prices will of course drop.
      - ben_w 4y ago
        Hydrogen is the easy one. If you want battery storage I agree we need to get it cheaper (the effective cost of battery storage was close to nuclear last I checked, which isn't cheap enough, though my numbers may be out of date), but hydrogen is something I first made when I was single-digit years old.
anovikov 4y ago
Russian sources of energy gave 22% of European consumption in 2021 and renewables, another 22%. So 45% goal by 2030 seems to be yes, "bring market back to equilibrium with 2021-level prices, but without Russian energy, by 2030". Of course, we will not be using any Russian energy long before 2030. About half of it is gone already (all coal, about 40% of oil and 60% of gas), and at least 80% will be gone by February next year. It's just that we will see elevated prices on most energy for a few years after 2024 or so when Russian supplies will zero out for all countries apart from Hungary.

by wiz21c 4y ago

ben_w 4y ago

I think that's implicit with the quoted timelines: > 2030 (45% renewables) and 2050 (75% renewables)

dispat0r 4y ago
It's not going to happen, the production costs alone don't permit that.
- anovikov 4y ago
  Main cost driver is the price of green hydrogen. It is already cheaper than the natural gas prices we are paying now (equivalent of about $1700 per 1000cm of natural gas equivalent vs about $2500 we pay), by 2030 it should be down to $500 per 1000cm natural gas equivalent and that's about 2019 price.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Production costs are easily low enough to go further and faster than that. Logistics and economics may slow things down, but it’s not a cost problem right now.
  - anovikov 4y ago
    Yes and no. For raw energy production, it is dirt cheap. Storage and transformation is a bitch though, and so far costs are quite high there although they are getting better. Given that we will need to increase green hydrogen production by 400x in 9 years and further 4x in next 20 years, prices will of course drop.
    - ben_w 4y ago
      Hydrogen is the easy one. If you want battery storage I agree we need to get it cheaper (the effective cost of battery storage was close to nuclear last I checked, which isn't cheap enough, though my numbers may be out of date), but hydrogen is something I first made when I was single-digit years old.

anovikov 4y ago

Russian sources of energy gave 22% of European consumption in 2021 and renewables, another 22%. So 45% goal by 2030 seems to be yes, "bring market back to equilibrium with 2021-level prices, but without Russian energy, by 2030". Of course, we will not be using any Russian energy long before 2030. About half of it is gone already (all coal, about 40% of oil and 60% of gas), and at least 80% will be gone by February next year. It's just that we will see elevated prices on most energy for a few years after 2024 or so when Russian supplies will zero out for all countries apart from Hungary.