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As an outsider with no insights (but owning a PineBookPro and considering a PinePhonePro), it surely looks like Manjaro is the king of the mountain - and that M

As an outsider with no insights (but owning a PineBookPro and considering a PinePhonePro), it surely looks like Manjaro is the king of the mountain - and that Martijn's blogpost is likely close to The Truth. Listening and doing your own things anyways is the time-honored way of ignoring people... Even as an Arch user (that hence "gets" Manjaro) that is sad :(

noasaservice 4y ago
About the pinephone pro - DONT. Much of the device still doesn't even work. And we're talking simple stuff like the cameras. Calling is also super sketchy. You can text but voice calls effectively is a fail. The IMU does appear to work correctly, for things like rotation. It is pretty fast. You can also fry your device (hardware damage!) if you get the pinephone keyboard and plug in USBC into the phone port instead of the keyboard port. You read that correctly. Hope you don't mess up if you're tired. And if your battery on the PPP goes too low, the utter shit firmware goes into a boot loop and can't charge. You have to take off the case and hit the recessed button to put it in DFU mode. That bypasses the firmware causing bootloops. And it's slllloooowwwww charging. I completely and utterly regret such a shit device. And I say that about the very hardware, AND the reticence in actually putting out base builds of working software.
- illuminerdy 4y ago
  I literally just watched a video on the Pine64 Pro and the reviewer basically said he couldn't recommend it.
  - noasaservice 4y ago
    I can also speak about the Pine A64 LTS. They claim that it supports eMMC booting natively. I bought 4 of each. And I bought a eMMC USB dongle to pre-liad the images. And .... No booting off of eMMC. And utterly NO help from anyone. No guides, no nothing. And that's hardware stuff that Pine attested would work. And it completely doesn't. I still have to boot using mSD at a whole class 10. Their whole "plan" and company is a shit show. It's all gongkai crap. Using or buying will give you pain and suffering if anything goes even slightly wrong.
- MartijnBraam 4y ago
  The cameras are far from "the simple stuff", it's one of the more complicated systems in mobile devices with multiple high speed components from different vendors that have to work together and not very much documentation for the hardware existing.
  - noasaservice 4y ago
    Admittedly, that's doubly concerning. Pine chooses the BoM; we don't. And if they're choosing unsupported/unsupportable chips without doing the barest of legwork to get them functional (or hell, get docs public), then that's a huge problem. Pine should be showing on their pages a hardware matrix showing what works and what doesn't. The Pinephone Pro doesn't qualify for the definition "phone". If they were serious, they'd put this page up front, with a list of all the stuff that they imply works, but doesn't: https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro_Software_State https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro_Software_State
    - zozbot234 4y ago
      > should be showing on their pages a hardware matrix showing what works and what doesn't. inb4 What works: You tell me!
    - MartijnBraam 4y ago
      There is not really any good options for the sensors, it's all a few closed developers.
      - ocdtrekkie 4y ago
        Martijn, I want to really give you some credit for these responses: It's rare to see someone who will step in and defend bad takes against the party they are also taking issue with.
        bombcar 4y ago
        Agreed, for someone who is watching from the sidelines it lends a lot of credence to Martijn.
- voltagex_ 4y ago
  So very few lessons learned from the first PinePhone, then
- ben-schaaf 4y ago
  Compared to the PinePhone ~6 months after release which: * Didn't have cameras working * Wifi didn't come back after suspend * Had numerous modem reliability issues * Bluetooth, sensors & audio were available but unused by software * Had some hardware bugs So this seems about on-par. Though on the userspace side things have of course progressed hugely for all devices.

noasaservice 4y ago

About the pinephone pro - DONT. Much of the device still doesn't even work. And we're talking simple stuff like the cameras. Calling is also super sketchy. You can text but voice calls effectively is a fail. The IMU does appear to work correctly, for things like rotation. It is pretty fast. You can also fry your device (hardware damage!) if you get the pinephone keyboard and plug in USBC into the phone port instead of the keyboard port. You read that correctly. Hope you don't mess up if you're tired. And if your battery on the PPP goes too low, the utter shit firmware goes into a boot loop and can't charge. You have to take off the case and hit the recessed button to put it in DFU mode. That bypasses the firmware causing bootloops. And it's slllloooowwwww charging. I completely and utterly regret such a shit device. And I say that about the very hardware, AND the reticence in actually putting out base builds of working software.

illuminerdy 4y ago
I literally just watched a video on the Pine64 Pro and the reviewer basically said he couldn't recommend it.
- noasaservice 4y ago
  I can also speak about the Pine A64 LTS. They claim that it supports eMMC booting natively. I bought 4 of each. And I bought a eMMC USB dongle to pre-liad the images. And .... No booting off of eMMC. And utterly NO help from anyone. No guides, no nothing. And that's hardware stuff that Pine attested would work. And it completely doesn't. I still have to boot using mSD at a whole class 10. Their whole "plan" and company is a shit show. It's all gongkai crap. Using or buying will give you pain and suffering if anything goes even slightly wrong.
MartijnBraam 4y ago
The cameras are far from "the simple stuff", it's one of the more complicated systems in mobile devices with multiple high speed components from different vendors that have to work together and not very much documentation for the hardware existing.
- noasaservice 4y ago
  Admittedly, that's doubly concerning. Pine chooses the BoM; we don't. And if they're choosing unsupported/unsupportable chips without doing the barest of legwork to get them functional (or hell, get docs public), then that's a huge problem. Pine should be showing on their pages a hardware matrix showing what works and what doesn't. The Pinephone Pro doesn't qualify for the definition "phone". If they were serious, they'd put this page up front, with a list of all the stuff that they imply works, but doesn't: https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro_Software_State https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro_Software_State
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    > should be showing on their pages a hardware matrix showing what works and what doesn't. inb4 What works: You tell me!
  - MartijnBraam 4y ago
    There is not really any good options for the sensors, it's all a few closed developers.
    - ocdtrekkie 4y ago
      Martijn, I want to really give you some credit for these responses: It's rare to see someone who will step in and defend bad takes against the party they are also taking issue with.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        Agreed, for someone who is watching from the sidelines it lends a lot of credence to Martijn.
voltagex_ 4y ago
So very few lessons learned from the first PinePhone, then
ben-schaaf 4y ago
Compared to the PinePhone ~6 months after release which: * Didn't have cameras working * Wifi didn't come back after suspend * Had numerous modem reliability issues * Bluetooth, sensors & audio were available but unused by software * Had some hardware bugs So this seems about on-par. Though on the userspace side things have of course progressed hugely for all devices.