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Reality? That's an entirely useless definition for anything I've ever had to care about in my life. It's also logically nonsense before you even get to consider

by iamevn 4y ago

Reality? That's an entirely useless definition for anything I've ever had to care about in my life. It's also logically nonsense before you even get to considering whether people who are infertile get to be "real".

koonsolo 4y ago
Ok, different problem then: if you allow all real women (as you define them) in female sports, then there will be no people who were born as female in the top sport. Maybe not a problem for you, but it is a problem if you were born female. In that case the "the people who were born female" seem to need an action group. But they can't because that would be transphobic.
- iamevn 4y ago
  Again, this is a garbage transphobic argument. It leads to people questioning the woman-ness of even cis women who are good at sport. We already have problems where women with naturally higher testosterone than usual are banned from competing[1] or salty parents calling for an investigation into a child's gender because their kids got beaten in sports[2]. TERF shit like this hurts all women. [1]: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2021/07/02/namibia-400-christine-mboma-beatrice-masilingi-testosterone/ https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2021/07/02/namibia-400-christ... [2]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkgaj8/utah-parents-gender-check-anti-trans-sports https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkgaj8/utah-parents-gender-c...
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    Ok, so people born female are out of top sport. Noted.
    - _zn02 4y ago
      They're already out of top sport by virtue of not being able to compete against people who are actually at the top of the sport. Really we should be coming up with better ways to divide "top sport" than gender. Weight class, for example. Or just skill level/rankings regardless of gender and stop acting like #1 in both things is the same.
    - iamevn 4y ago
      If you look at the link I provided above you'll see an actual real example of top athletes "born female" who are being kicked out of competitions because of the exact shit that gets put in place to prevent hypothetical trans athletes from competing.

by iamevn 4y ago

koonsolo 4y ago

Ok, different problem then: if you allow all real women (as you define them) in female sports, then there will be no people who were born as female in the top sport. Maybe not a problem for you, but it is a problem if you were born female. In that case the "the people who were born female" seem to need an action group. But they can't because that would be transphobic.

iamevn 4y ago
Again, this is a garbage transphobic argument. It leads to people questioning the woman-ness of even cis women who are good at sport. We already have problems where women with naturally higher testosterone than usual are banned from competing[1] or salty parents calling for an investigation into a child's gender because their kids got beaten in sports[2]. TERF shit like this hurts all women. [1]: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2021/07/02/namibia-400-christine-mboma-beatrice-masilingi-testosterone/ https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2021/07/02/namibia-400-christ... [2]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkgaj8/utah-parents-gender-check-anti-trans-sports https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkgaj8/utah-parents-gender-c...
- koonsolo 4y ago
  Ok, so people born female are out of top sport. Noted.
  - _zn02 4y ago
    They're already out of top sport by virtue of not being able to compete against people who are actually at the top of the sport. Really we should be coming up with better ways to divide "top sport" than gender. Weight class, for example. Or just skill level/rankings regardless of gender and stop acting like #1 in both things is the same.
  - iamevn 4y ago
    If you look at the link I provided above you'll see an actual real example of top athletes "born female" who are being kicked out of competitions because of the exact shit that gets put in place to prevent hypothetical trans athletes from competing.