6 ms·

> both seem to carry plenty of baggage Salads can literally kill you via the listeria they bring.

RC_ITR 4y ago
The majority of foodborne illness and death in the US is due to animal products. [1] [1]https://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/attribution-image.html#foodborne-illnesses https://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/attribution-image.html#f...
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  Isn’t it also the case that a lot of these contaminations in produce (like leafy greens) are caused by animal manure being used to fertilize the produce? Without manure being used the risk is diminished by orders of magnitude.
  - markdown 4y ago
    Only little backyard operations use animal manure. No large food chain will carry greens grown in animal manure.
    - tompccs 4y ago
      Have you heard of a small movement called organic farming? https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.morningagclips.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2Fcertified-organics-20170920-02.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...
    - wyre 4y ago
      Maybe so, but how does that explain how E. coli outbreaks on lettuce? From what I understand the waste from animal farms run off into waterways that feed the vegetable farms.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        Field workers who don't get bathroom breaks.
      - scythe 4y ago
        Rabbits? It's not exactly easy ensure there are no animals across thousands of square miles of farmland.
      - hombre_fatal 4y ago
        Looking into this, it's hard to say since there are contamination issues at every point between preharvest and the moment you put it into your mouth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6899298/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6899298/ It doesn't seem to rank the causes it lists, but googling it suggests widespread contamination caused by fecal matter runoff from animal ag finding its way into irrigation water.
    - steve_adams_86 4y ago
      Here in Canada we have pretty heavy application of manure, primarily in spring and fall. It's part of how we replenish soils at small and large scales. I suspect we rarely grow greens immediately after applications, but to say only backyard operations use animal manure isn't true. Evidently this is a common and well-researched practice in the USA as well: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286297896_Animal_Manure_Production_and_Utilization_in_the_US https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286297896_Animal_Ma...
- aeternum 4y ago
  From that link it looks like about half of illnesses are from animal products and half is from produce. Deaths from animal products is higher. The data is also from 2008. Things have likely changed since US households and food prep has been heavily focused on cleanliness around animal products but nowhere near as much focus is on produce. The 'pre-washed' pre-packaged produce is especially risky.
steve_adams_86 4y ago
I’ll pick the salad over the steak any day, though. Above all I’d love to see better technology and attention for food safety, though. It’s stunning to see how many people suffer from food born illness today — something I’d thought was far more under control up until my mid 30s. It’s better under many circumstances and I’m not going to pretend it’s anything like it has been in the past. However, we could do much, much better than we do now and it would literally save lives.
- thelittleone 4y ago
  Why, for example over say grass fed, organic steak?
  - frankzander 4y ago
    because it's salad is a hell lot better in terms of environmental friendliness
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    Health concerns around animal products are not dramatically reduced between organic and non-organic agriculture. It's better, but it's still not good. I don't drink organic alcohol, either; it's harmful to your health no matter how you slice it.
- throwaway09223 4y ago
  "I’ll pick the salad over the steak any day, though." In terms of food safety and risk of pathogens, salad is far, far more dangerous than steak.
  - devX3 4y ago
    I mean it's raw but still in a steak you probably have way more substances and end of foodchain accumulations.
    - ikiris 4y ago
raxxorraxor 4y ago
It is also not recommended to feed certain types of salad to small pets like birds because it is loaded with pollutants from farming.
orangepurple 4y ago
Not if you flash deep fry 'em

The majority of foodborne illness and death in the US is due to animal products. [1] [1]https://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/attribution-image.html#foodborne-illnesses https://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/attribution-image.html#f...

steve_adams_86 4y ago
Isn’t it also the case that a lot of these contaminations in produce (like leafy greens) are caused by animal manure being used to fertilize the produce? Without manure being used the risk is diminished by orders of magnitude.
- markdown 4y ago
  Only little backyard operations use animal manure. No large food chain will carry greens grown in animal manure.
  - tompccs 4y ago
    Have you heard of a small movement called organic farming? https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.morningagclips.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2Fcertified-organics-20170920-02.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...
  - wyre 4y ago
    Maybe so, but how does that explain how E. coli outbreaks on lettuce? From what I understand the waste from animal farms run off into waterways that feed the vegetable farms.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      Field workers who don't get bathroom breaks.
    - scythe 4y ago
      Rabbits? It's not exactly easy ensure there are no animals across thousands of square miles of farmland.
    - hombre_fatal 4y ago
      Looking into this, it's hard to say since there are contamination issues at every point between preharvest and the moment you put it into your mouth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6899298/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6899298/ It doesn't seem to rank the causes it lists, but googling it suggests widespread contamination caused by fecal matter runoff from animal ag finding its way into irrigation water.
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    Here in Canada we have pretty heavy application of manure, primarily in spring and fall. It's part of how we replenish soils at small and large scales. I suspect we rarely grow greens immediately after applications, but to say only backyard operations use animal manure isn't true. Evidently this is a common and well-researched practice in the USA as well: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286297896_Animal_Manure_Production_and_Utilization_in_the_US https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286297896_Animal_Ma...
aeternum 4y ago
From that link it looks like about half of illnesses are from animal products and half is from produce. Deaths from animal products is higher. The data is also from 2008. Things have likely changed since US households and food prep has been heavily focused on cleanliness around animal products but nowhere near as much focus is on produce. The 'pre-washed' pre-packaged produce is especially risky.

steve_adams_86 4y ago

I’ll pick the salad over the steak any day, though. Above all I’d love to see better technology and attention for food safety, though. It’s stunning to see how many people suffer from food born illness today — something I’d thought was far more under control up until my mid 30s. It’s better under many circumstances and I’m not going to pretend it’s anything like it has been in the past. However, we could do much, much better than we do now and it would literally save lives.

thelittleone 4y ago
Why, for example over say grass fed, organic steak?
- frankzander 4y ago
  because it's salad is a hell lot better in terms of environmental friendliness
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  Health concerns around animal products are not dramatically reduced between organic and non-organic agriculture. It's better, but it's still not good. I don't drink organic alcohol, either; it's harmful to your health no matter how you slice it.
throwaway09223 4y ago
"I’ll pick the salad over the steak any day, though." In terms of food safety and risk of pathogens, salad is far, far more dangerous than steak.
- devX3 4y ago
  I mean it's raw but still in a steak you probably have way more substances and end of foodchain accumulations.
  - ikiris 4y ago

raxxorraxor 4y ago

It is also not recommended to feed certain types of salad to small pets like birds because it is loaded with pollutants from farming.

orangepurple 4y ago

Not if you flash deep fry 'em