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It's concerning when a power company can't produce adequate power and needs to rely on consumer batteries. It's cool from a tech perspective but isn't such an e

by windows2020 4y ago

It's concerning when a power company can't produce adequate power and needs to rely on consumer batteries. It's cool from a tech perspective but isn't such an event exactly when you'd want power? At that point, your battery no longer provides you resiliency but provides the power company a margin they can rely on without investing in additional infrastructure.

Daishiman 4y ago
It’s a matter of not requiring to kick in more expensive and polluting energy sources.
- windows2020 4y ago
  Is a large number of consumer batteries more environmentally friendly than say a nuclear power plant?
  - helf 4y ago
    That’s not the point (disclaimer: I love nuclear power), the point is this let’s them Supplement rapid energy demand /spikes/ over the span of literally seconds vs ramping up generation from other sources which are all slower as well as generally being further from where it needs to be at that moment. This allows them to readily absorb spikes happening randomly around the grid in an easier manner
    - etimberg 4y ago
      Agreed! Inverter based resources have the ability to respond within a few milliseconds whereas the next fastest response would be from hydro power and that could take as little as 10s. More conventional generation takes a lot longer. [1] has some nice charts showing cold-start times for different types of generation. 1. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45956 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45956
  - dividedbyzero 4y ago
    Wouldn't currently available nukes take way too long to ramp up and down for this use case?
    - etimberg 4y ago
      In general, after a nuclear plant is shut down, it has to be kept off for a few days to let Xe-135 completely decay. Quoting from Wikipedia [1] " After about 3 days of shutdown, the core can be assumed to be free of 135Xe, without it introducing errors into the reactivity calculations" 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_pit#Fission_products_decay_and_burnup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_pit#Fission_products_de...
  - dymk 4y ago
    What nuclear power plant?
  - smileysteve 4y ago
    Consumers have not necessarily purchased batteries to be part of this program; while a potential outcome, it would be much more wasteful for the batteries to decay over time without being utilized significantly.
TheGuyWhoCodes 4y ago
It's an optional opt-in and the rewards are pretty good. Some places don't even allow you to install solar because planning a national grid power demand is not easy and solar generation needs to be taken into account and it depends on a lot of factors, it's a solvable problem for sure but these companies aren't known for their technological innovations.. You also don't want your power provider to build expensive peaker plants for the occasional peak demands. Programs like these and other DER programs help flatten out the curve and lower yours and everyone else's bill.

Daishiman 4y ago

It’s a matter of not requiring to kick in more expensive and polluting energy sources.

windows2020 4y ago
Is a large number of consumer batteries more environmentally friendly than say a nuclear power plant?
- helf 4y ago
  That’s not the point (disclaimer: I love nuclear power), the point is this let’s them Supplement rapid energy demand /spikes/ over the span of literally seconds vs ramping up generation from other sources which are all slower as well as generally being further from where it needs to be at that moment. This allows them to readily absorb spikes happening randomly around the grid in an easier manner
  - etimberg 4y ago
    Agreed! Inverter based resources have the ability to respond within a few milliseconds whereas the next fastest response would be from hydro power and that could take as little as 10s. More conventional generation takes a lot longer. [1] has some nice charts showing cold-start times for different types of generation. 1. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45956 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45956
- dividedbyzero 4y ago
  Wouldn't currently available nukes take way too long to ramp up and down for this use case?
  - etimberg 4y ago
    In general, after a nuclear plant is shut down, it has to be kept off for a few days to let Xe-135 completely decay. Quoting from Wikipedia [1] " After about 3 days of shutdown, the core can be assumed to be free of 135Xe, without it introducing errors into the reactivity calculations" 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_pit#Fission_products_decay_and_burnup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_pit#Fission_products_de...
- dymk 4y ago
  What nuclear power plant?
- smileysteve 4y ago
  Consumers have not necessarily purchased batteries to be part of this program; while a potential outcome, it would be much more wasteful for the batteries to decay over time without being utilized significantly.

TheGuyWhoCodes 4y ago

It's an optional opt-in and the rewards are pretty good. Some places don't even allow you to install solar because planning a national grid power demand is not easy and solar generation needs to be taken into account and it depends on a lot of factors, it's a solvable problem for sure but these companies aren't known for their technological innovations.. You also don't want your power provider to build expensive peaker plants for the occasional peak demands. Programs like these and other DER programs help flatten out the curve and lower yours and everyone else's bill.