4 ms·

Not really. Tweeting your opinion is legal, leaking state secrets not so.

by siva7 4y ago

nradov 4y ago
Not really. Leaking state secrets isn't a crime under US federal law for people who have no security clearance. Julian Assange is charged with conspiracy to commit computer intrusion. https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-computer-hacking-conspiracy https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/wikileaks-founder-charg...
- bena 4y ago
  Yeah, I technically can't leak state secrets because I'm not privy to them. So if I have them, they're already leaked. I would be post-crime.
random314 4y ago
Assange is Australian
rndgermandude 4y ago
So if I leaked Saudi state secrets, should I be extradited to Saudi Arabia? Or is that only if I leaked the secrets of a state you consider a "good guy" state?
- space_fountain 4y ago
  Yep, and actually I'm ok with that. We don't have to be blind to the fact that Saudi Arabia locked a bunch of people in a hotel until they agreed to give money and control to a dictator. We don't have to forget that they killed a journalist in one of their embassies for the crime of being one of their critics. And it's not like Saudi Arabia, China, or certainly Russia would be very fast to extradite someone to the US anyway so this is just sort of the way it works.
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    Ah, so it is just how things work. Strange argument on context of womens liberation in my opinion.
    - space_fountain 4y ago
      Well the person I was replying to seemed to be implying that we can't be mad at people who hurt the US unless we'd also be mad if they hurt say Russia or Saudi Arabia, but that's just extreme rule brain taking over. We can totally say Saudi is bad and therefore leaking their secrets is ok and, in fact, that's how it's always worked. Rules don't have to be blind to values and probably shouldn't be
- mcphage 4y ago
  > Or is that only if I leaked the secrets of a state you consider a "good guy" state? Of course. There’s a difference between good and evil, as much as you’re trying to pretend otherwise.
  - rndgermandude 4y ago
    Have you considered that after seeing how the US handled Manning, handled Assange, handled Snowden, handled Ellsberg, handled Martin Luther King Jr, handled the Vietnam war, the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, Guantanamo Bay, and the countless other shit just in the last half century, I might have a hard time putting them squarely into the "good guys" bracket? That isn't to relativize in any way what others are doing - which is often even worse, no argument there - but I'm not grading on a scale where you get a passing grade at 40% just because China and Putin - and others - are even worse. Being the lesser evil doesn't make you "good".
    - colordrops 4y ago
      Also these countries are not monoliths. Some actions may be good and some evil. "good and evil" is for children's fairy tails and Star Wars. International politics is sociopathic game theory.
    - darkarmani 4y ago
      I'm not sure the criteria for being good is being perfect and "never making a mistake".
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
colordrops 4y ago
Are you talking about Assange? He is not being charged with leaking state secrets, because it's not against the law if you didn't steal them firsthand, especially for non-citizens outside of the country.
croes 4y ago
Strange, the US newspapers that wrote articles based on WikiLeaks leaks won prices. And WikiLeaks isn't the leaker but the publisher of that leaks.
- edm0nd 4y ago
  That's pretty arguable. Assange is in chat logs with Manning who then passed Assange a password hash and with Assange saying he will attempt to get it cracked. The password would have given Manning admin privileges on SIPRNet, allowing her to pull more files to leak and better cover her tracks. That's being pretty directly involved in leaks imo. src: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5816949/Julian-Assange-Indictment.pdf https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5816949/Julian-Assang...
  - jiggawatts 4y ago
    Meanwhile Trump had top secret documents at his house while a private citizen that he wasn’t supposed to have there even while President. What do you think his punishment will be? A decade in jail? Having to flee to another country and hide in an embassy to escape extradition and torture? No? Why not? Upsetting people in power is a “crime” in every country, with the corollary that the reverse is not true: people in power can do whatever they want to the weak without fear of consequence. If you think otherwise, come back in a few months and comment below about how many years in jail Trump got for actually doing something much worse than what Julian failed to do.
  - croes 4y ago
    That claim is pretty arguable itself. "Forensic expert questions US claims that Julian Assange conspired to crack military password" "Manning already had legitimate access to all of the databases from which she downloaded data,” he said. “Logging into another user account would not have provided her with more access than she already possessed" https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252489645/Forensic-expert-questions-US-claims-that-Assange-conspired-to-crack-military-password https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252489645/Forensic-exper...
VoodooJuJu 4y ago
What the GP comment is saying is 100% true. Julian Assange is being persecuted because he published damning Truths about the people in power. He was lauded as a hero when he published damning Truths about things like the War in Iraq, this did not hurt the people in power, but when he started publishing Truths about Hillary Clinton, that's when he started hurting the people in power.
- space_fountain 4y ago
  He was persecuted well before Hillary. The only interesting thing the whole Hillary situation did was rearrange some of his supporters and detractors
raxxorraxor 4y ago
If state secrets contain incriminating contents and are of interest to the public, leaking them is ethically mandatory. Very likely legal as well in any free country.

Not really. Tweeting your opinion is legal, leaking state secrets not so.

by siva7 4y ago

Not really. Tweeting your opinion is legal, leaking state secrets not so.

Not really. Leaking state secrets isn't a crime under US federal law for people who have no security clearance. Julian Assange is charged with conspiracy to commit computer intrusion. https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-computer-hacking-conspiracy https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/wikileaks-founder-charg...

bena 4y ago
Yeah, I technically can't leak state secrets because I'm not privy to them. So if I have them, they're already leaked. I would be post-crime.

random314 4y ago

Assange is Australian

rndgermandude 4y ago

So if I leaked Saudi state secrets, should I be extradited to Saudi Arabia? Or is that only if I leaked the secrets of a state you consider a "good guy" state?

space_fountain 4y ago
Yep, and actually I'm ok with that. We don't have to be blind to the fact that Saudi Arabia locked a bunch of people in a hotel until they agreed to give money and control to a dictator. We don't have to forget that they killed a journalist in one of their embassies for the crime of being one of their critics. And it's not like Saudi Arabia, China, or certainly Russia would be very fast to extradite someone to the US anyway so this is just sort of the way it works.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  Ah, so it is just how things work. Strange argument on context of womens liberation in my opinion.
  - space_fountain 4y ago
    Well the person I was replying to seemed to be implying that we can't be mad at people who hurt the US unless we'd also be mad if they hurt say Russia or Saudi Arabia, but that's just extreme rule brain taking over. We can totally say Saudi is bad and therefore leaking their secrets is ok and, in fact, that's how it's always worked. Rules don't have to be blind to values and probably shouldn't be
mcphage 4y ago
> Or is that only if I leaked the secrets of a state you consider a "good guy" state? Of course. There’s a difference between good and evil, as much as you’re trying to pretend otherwise.
- rndgermandude 4y ago
  Have you considered that after seeing how the US handled Manning, handled Assange, handled Snowden, handled Ellsberg, handled Martin Luther King Jr, handled the Vietnam war, the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, Guantanamo Bay, and the countless other shit just in the last half century, I might have a hard time putting them squarely into the "good guys" bracket? That isn't to relativize in any way what others are doing - which is often even worse, no argument there - but I'm not grading on a scale where you get a passing grade at 40% just because China and Putin - and others - are even worse. Being the lesser evil doesn't make you "good".
  - colordrops 4y ago
    Also these countries are not monoliths. Some actions may be good and some evil. "good and evil" is for children's fairy tails and Star Wars. International politics is sociopathic game theory.
  - darkarmani 4y ago
    I'm not sure the criteria for being good is being perfect and "never making a mistake".
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

colordrops 4y ago

Are you talking about Assange? He is not being charged with leaking state secrets, because it's not against the law if you didn't steal them firsthand, especially for non-citizens outside of the country.

croes 4y ago

Strange, the US newspapers that wrote articles based on WikiLeaks leaks won prices. And WikiLeaks isn't the leaker but the publisher of that leaks.

edm0nd 4y ago
That's pretty arguable. Assange is in chat logs with Manning who then passed Assange a password hash and with Assange saying he will attempt to get it cracked. The password would have given Manning admin privileges on SIPRNet, allowing her to pull more files to leak and better cover her tracks. That's being pretty directly involved in leaks imo. src: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5816949/Julian-Assange-Indictment.pdf https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5816949/Julian-Assang...
- jiggawatts 4y ago
  Meanwhile Trump had top secret documents at his house while a private citizen that he wasn’t supposed to have there even while President. What do you think his punishment will be? A decade in jail? Having to flee to another country and hide in an embassy to escape extradition and torture? No? Why not? Upsetting people in power is a “crime” in every country, with the corollary that the reverse is not true: people in power can do whatever they want to the weak without fear of consequence. If you think otherwise, come back in a few months and comment below about how many years in jail Trump got for actually doing something much worse than what Julian failed to do.
- croes 4y ago
  That claim is pretty arguable itself. "Forensic expert questions US claims that Julian Assange conspired to crack military password" "Manning already had legitimate access to all of the databases from which she downloaded data,” he said. “Logging into another user account would not have provided her with more access than she already possessed" https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252489645/Forensic-expert-questions-US-claims-that-Assange-conspired-to-crack-military-password https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252489645/Forensic-exper...

VoodooJuJu 4y ago

What the GP comment is saying is 100% true. Julian Assange is being persecuted because he published damning Truths about the people in power. He was lauded as a hero when he published damning Truths about things like the War in Iraq, this did not hurt the people in power, but when he started publishing Truths about Hillary Clinton, that's when he started hurting the people in power.

space_fountain 4y ago
He was persecuted well before Hillary. The only interesting thing the whole Hillary situation did was rearrange some of his supporters and detractors

raxxorraxor 4y ago

If state secrets contain incriminating contents and are of interest to the public, leaking them is ethically mandatory. Very likely legal as well in any free country.