8 ms·

I'm interested to know to what extent this is just assembly of parts imported from China, or whether the real control over things like the M1 chip assembly, sec

• wmf 4y ago
  Apple Silicon is made in Taiwan.
  • randall 4y ago
    Wow. Is the geopolitical hedge there with Texas or something?
    • droopyEyelids 4y ago
      Our Disaster Recovery Plan is still in the discovery stage
      • hindsightbias 4y ago
    • smachiz 4y ago
      TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company) is the largest contract manufacturer of complex CPUs there is. They're building a massive fab in Phoenix.
      • Poppys 4y ago
        Isn't dispersing a core business, that the global economy relies on, to other countries a bad move for Taiwan? If advanced micro chips are made in another country doesn't that mean China might be more likely to use a forceful invasion and other countries can say "Yes, this is terrible - but at least we still have our chips!"
        • simonh 4y ago
          Taiwan doesn't own TSMC. They don't tell TSMC how to do business any more than the US government dictates to Intel. I'm sure it wields influence, of course. The US government offers incentives for companies to build foundries in the US, and there's a large pool of skilled workers in the industry in that area. Also Taiwan is a small country, so it's quite possible TSMC needs to expand internationally in order to be able to scale up it's business.
          • akelly 4y ago
            TSMC was founded as a Taiwan government initiative, the government still owns 6% and has a representative on the board of directors.
          • tooltalk 4y ago
            Sure, but the US gov't provided no seed money or had any role otherwise in founding of Intel, unlike TSMC. Up until recently the US chips companies were pretty much on their own without much special pampering. TSMC has little or no desire to expand beyond their tiny island -- not only b/c of the gov't investment's national stake in TSMC, but also TSMC's business model doesn't work -- and certainly can't maintain its fat profit marign -- without gov't largess and econ protection.
        • creakingstairs 4y ago
          Yeah I do wonder about this. Atm, US is putting on immense pressure on chip manufacturers and their countries to control the supply and add factories in US soil. Once the factories are built, would US be as invested in defending Taiwan and further, South Korea? I know US won’t give them up easily, but when push comes to shove … I don’t know.
    • seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      Didn't TSMC buy all of Motorolas fabs in Austin a long time ago? I'm not sure if any of their FABs in Austin still exist or are current with the most modern processes, or if they are just running design centers there at this point.
• pishpash 4y ago
  It's almost certainly final assembly, and plugged into the supply chain next door.
  • astrange 4y ago
    The other parts aren't all made in China. The displays are made in Japan and Korea.
    • philliphaydon 4y ago
      Other than the battery I don't think any parts are made in China. It's only assembled there.
    • kccqzy 4y ago
      I don't think so. Some displays are (maybe used to?) made by a Chinese company called BOE in China. Specifically they are made in Sichuan Province, China.
      • happyopossum 4y ago
        BOE got caught trying to slip sub-spec panels into the pipeline and got spanked for it.
• dirtyid 4y ago
  https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple-Supplier-List.pdf https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple-Supp... Ctrl+F 157 from PRC, other countries rarely break 30. Vietnam has 21 suppliers, most of whom also has (likely primary) PRC operation. >engineering ecosystems One presumes still need PRC to to build things first and work out kinks - so far only matured manufacturing lines are shifting out of PRC.
  • zshbleaker 4y ago
    I was born in China and my family runs factories here for many years. What you mentioned is true, the absolute majority of the supply chain of the big name companies are still in China, and many of the alternatives in Vietnam are somehow managed by PRC background capital. However, it’s absolutely a good start. The eco mic crisis raising in China will be like the 1930s in US, if not worse. My family are actively searching for ways to selling out everything and move out the country but it’s clearly prohibited by the Gov. We are worrying it will eventually becomes a new Third Reich in near future, when the supply chain will be completely destroyed.
    • dirtyid 4y ago
      > it’s absolutely a good start. Depends on why you think it's good. If you think it will hollow out PRC industry and will lead to collapse of CCP into Third Reich leading to collapse them you will probably be disapointed. CCP _wants_ PRC companies to expand in region because it's "cooperative" sourcing strategy that helps PRC geoeconomic posture by increasing dependence. Especially in Vietnam where PRC control over Mekong = influence over Vietnamese agriculture and energy via Laos hydogeneration upstream. The TLDR PRC moved into Vietnam long before tariffs, and while tariff dodging is nice perk, it's mostly another layer of influence/control over Vietnam. > supply chain will be completely destroyed. ... > clearly prohibited by the Gov Ergo why PRC supply chains won't be destroyed because apart from getting rid of polluting light industries where value:externalities do not compute, most relevant strategic supply chains will be protected in PRC for domestic use. I have family / friends who run factories as well, the ones in lowend got fucked whereas the ones higher up supply chain are doing fine. Those levers introduced last few years to prevent capital flight is why PRC is managing the eco crisis fine... a crisis by the way they chose to initiate (i.e. real estate) like past deleveraging efforts specifically because they have more lever to prevent actual crisis. But yeah people don't like the wild rides coming would be wise to look for excape plan, but it's going to be harder and harder to escape with much. Lots of people going to be fucked, while lots will continue to get rich, which is to say, same old China since the 90s.
• rednerrus 4y ago
  China does surprisingly little when it comes to the advanced stuff.
  • mccorrinall 4y ago
    smic (partially state owned) is only two nodes behind tsmc and samsung: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-process-is-reportedly-copied-from-tsmc-tech https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-...
    • pengaru 4y ago
      • simondotau 4y ago
        Of course it depends who you ask. Hypothetically, China could tomorrow claim ownership of Japan, and then the answer to the question of Japanese sovereignty would also "depend on who you ask."
        • nindalf 4y ago
          This isn’t even that far fetched. The justification for the “nine-dash line” that claims all of the South China Sea in violation of international maritime law is based on some spurious claim like “China controlled this sea at some point in the past”. It’s only a step from there to making Korea and Japan vassal states because they were at some point in the past.
          • alex_suzuki 4y ago
            I wonder what would happen if two states both laid claim to each others territory, Japan having occupied large parts of china in the 1930s?
            • 4y ago
• chrischen 4y ago
  China is the one assembling parts imported from abroad or other parts also assembled there. As far as I know no high value parts are actually made in China, though I’m sure some sub components could also be assembled there.
  • simonh 4y ago
    In fact for most of the iPhone's history the value of components manufactured in the US, and therefore the investment in the US in iPhone manufacturing, was much greater than the value added in China from final assembly.
• seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  As state before, China is already assembling lots of parts from other Asian countries. Additionally, iPhones are made in special export zones (SEZs), so the parts along with the machinery used to produce an iPhone are all imported without tariff (and even the company doing this is Taiwanese, which embodies a lot of the higher level hardware/production engineering that easily transfers to Vietnam). Consequently, iPhones have to be re-imported into China before they can be sold to Chinese consumers, incurring tariffs at that point. I assume Vietnam has something similar set up.
  • Saigonauticon 4y ago
    We do. Furniture companies use it a lot already. You can be licensed to import lumber, manufacture using local labor, and export -- without having a license to sell locally. We don't have SEZ, but do have big industrial / IT parks offering support for foreign enterprise. Some are pretty nice. Overall, the permitted activities on your business license matter. Getting licensed is usually easier than people think, except a handful of sensitive areas. A small slice of life: this does make furniture tradeshows sad affairs. You can see great things made in Vietnam, but you can't actually buy any of them. This has improved a lot over the last 10 years, but it's still somewhat of a thing.
    • pm90 4y ago
      It seems pretty silly to discourage sale of Vietnamese made furniture in Vietnam.
      • yunohn 4y ago
        From my reading of the situation, it’s not discouraged, rather the companies would rather avoid finally paying tariffs and instead sell abroad. Not sure how significant the charges are?
        • simonh 4y ago
          It depends how you look at it. I doubt it's the companies avoiding tariffs, it's that customers in Vietnam wouldn't buy the goods because the tariffs would make them too expensive. If Vietnamese would buy the goods anyway I'm sure the companies would love to sell their goods in the country.