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Indeed, I think people tend to forget that Germany declared war on the US - which I have seen described (in a fantastic bit of understatement) as "most puzzling

Indeed, I think people tend to forget that Germany declared war on the US - which I have seen described (in a fantastic bit of understatement) as "most puzzling": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_declaration_of_war_against_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_declaration_of_war_agai...

300bps 4y ago
Thank you for the interesting link! It seems to hold the key to why Germany declared war against the U.S. - essentially it was a condition of Japan’s first strike against the U.S.: On 28 November 1941, Ribbentrop confirmed to Hiroshi Oshima, the Japanese ambassador to Germany, what Hitler himself had told Japanese foreign minister Yosuke Matsuoka: that if Japan got involved in a war with the US, Germany would enter the war on Japan's side. When the Japanese asked for written confirmation of this, Hitler provided it, along with Mussolini's consent.
- setr 4y ago
  Further down clarifies that the agreement only triggered for defense, not offense > According to the terms of their agreements, Germany was obliged to come to the aid of Japan if a third country attacked Japan, but not if Japan attacked a third country. Ribbentrop reminded Hitler of this, and pointed out that to declare war against the US would add to the number of enemies Germany was fighting, but Hitler dismissed this concern as not being important,[3] and, almost entirely without consultation, chose to declare war against the US, wanting to do so before, he thought, American president Franklin D. Roosevelt would declare war on Germany.
locutous 4y ago
Germany didn't believe their own intelligence figures of US manufacturing output. They were laughed to scorn as impossible. Some hubris there, certainly.
- kamaal 4y ago
  Some level of hubris everybody has. Go read any thread here about Russia-Ukraine, almost unanimously most comments read like Russia is destined to lose, no matter what they do. You will also read how China is absolutely a weak military power and will lose in case of a Taiwan invasion. Patriotism like many other emotional attachments can make you blind to your biases. The common theme among most US citizens in this very forum is American exceptionalism - That is - USA will win no matter how many wrong moves it makes, its opponents will lose no matter how many right moves they make. Its not hard to imagine Germany with its universities, industries, scientists, engineering prowess etc- To have similar illusions of grandeur.
  - the_only_law 4y ago
    > You will also read how China is absolutely a weak military power and will lose in case of a Taiwan invasion. For some reason, my YouTube feed has been hijacked by low quality videos swearing up and down that China’s economy will collapse tomorrow.
  - nradov 4y ago
    China isn't weak, but for now they still lack the airborne and amphibious lift capacity to invade Taiwan. This has nothing to do with patriotism, it's a simple matter of geography and weather. There are only a few months per year when sea conditions make an invasion possible, and only a few ports or beaches where an invasion force could potentially put ashore. Look at a map. Those points are relatively easy for a smaller force to defend. In a few years China might build up the necessary capabilities, but that situation doesn't obtain today. China could absolutely wreck Taiwan's civilian infrastructure with air and missile strikes. But that doesn't mean they can invade and conquer the main island.
    - rdtwo 4y ago
      You don’t need to bomb Taiwan. A blockade of 1-2 years would be plenty. They don’t need to fire a single missile at the mainland.

300bps 4y ago

Thank you for the interesting link! It seems to hold the key to why Germany declared war against the U.S. - essentially it was a condition of Japan’s first strike against the U.S.: On 28 November 1941, Ribbentrop confirmed to Hiroshi Oshima, the Japanese ambassador to Germany, what Hitler himself had told Japanese foreign minister Yosuke Matsuoka: that if Japan got involved in a war with the US, Germany would enter the war on Japan's side. When the Japanese asked for written confirmation of this, Hitler provided it, along with Mussolini's consent.

setr 4y ago
Further down clarifies that the agreement only triggered for defense, not offense > According to the terms of their agreements, Germany was obliged to come to the aid of Japan if a third country attacked Japan, but not if Japan attacked a third country. Ribbentrop reminded Hitler of this, and pointed out that to declare war against the US would add to the number of enemies Germany was fighting, but Hitler dismissed this concern as not being important,[3] and, almost entirely without consultation, chose to declare war against the US, wanting to do so before, he thought, American president Franklin D. Roosevelt would declare war on Germany.

locutous 4y ago

Germany didn't believe their own intelligence figures of US manufacturing output. They were laughed to scorn as impossible. Some hubris there, certainly.

kamaal 4y ago
Some level of hubris everybody has. Go read any thread here about Russia-Ukraine, almost unanimously most comments read like Russia is destined to lose, no matter what they do. You will also read how China is absolutely a weak military power and will lose in case of a Taiwan invasion. Patriotism like many other emotional attachments can make you blind to your biases. The common theme among most US citizens in this very forum is American exceptionalism - That is - USA will win no matter how many wrong moves it makes, its opponents will lose no matter how many right moves they make. Its not hard to imagine Germany with its universities, industries, scientists, engineering prowess etc- To have similar illusions of grandeur.
- the_only_law 4y ago
  > You will also read how China is absolutely a weak military power and will lose in case of a Taiwan invasion. For some reason, my YouTube feed has been hijacked by low quality videos swearing up and down that China’s economy will collapse tomorrow.
- nradov 4y ago
  China isn't weak, but for now they still lack the airborne and amphibious lift capacity to invade Taiwan. This has nothing to do with patriotism, it's a simple matter of geography and weather. There are only a few months per year when sea conditions make an invasion possible, and only a few ports or beaches where an invasion force could potentially put ashore. Look at a map. Those points are relatively easy for a smaller force to defend. In a few years China might build up the necessary capabilities, but that situation doesn't obtain today. China could absolutely wreck Taiwan's civilian infrastructure with air and missile strikes. But that doesn't mean they can invade and conquer the main island.
  - rdtwo 4y ago
    You don’t need to bomb Taiwan. A blockade of 1-2 years would be plenty. They don’t need to fire a single missile at the mainland.