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At this point, "Consistent shortcuts" is the main "feature" keeping me on MacOS. Cmd+, opens preferences in every app. Cmd+[ or ] goes "back" and "forward", i

At this point, "Consistent shortcuts" is the main "feature" keeping me on MacOS. Cmd+, opens preferences in every app. Cmd+[ or ] goes "back" and "forward", in every app that has those concepts Cmd+Shift+[ or ] switches tabs, in every app that has tabs, except a handful of stupid chat apps who think they're too good for it. Cmd+W always closes the current tab, if the app has tabs, (or current window, if the app has no tabs), and does not quit the app – that's what Cmd+Q is for. Etc. Also notice how PageUp / PageDn, keys that my keyboard doesn't even have, are not used for crucial shortcuts like these. Seemingly small things, but absolutely maddening when developers don't respect the common convention, or when a common convention does not exist. I always thought this consistency was a feature of the app ecosystem and app developer attitudes rather than the OS itself, so I'm not sure what RavynOS can do to make third party apps obey their idea of consistent shortcuts? The wiki doesn't mention anything about shortcuts despite the language on the home page.

sofixa 4y ago
For the tabs Ctrl+tab/Ctrl+shift+tab is the standard on Windows and Linux, so i can see how some apps can forget about macOS' specialness.
- nikitaga 4y ago
  Speaking of this specialness... having the main system shortcut modifier – Cmd – physically located under both your thumbs is priceless. In contrast, the Ctrl keys are usually located such that they're best accessed with your pinkies. Who thought that making people use their weakest fingers for the most common shortcuts is a good idea? Could you remap your keys to have Ctrl keys under the thumbs in Windows / Linux? Yes, but then: 1) It will become hard to use Ctrl-based text navigation shortcuts (such as Ctrl+left to navigate one word left) with one hand, and 2) Ctrl+Tab will now use the same physical keys as Alt+Tab used to, and your brain will never heal from this (at least mine refuses to).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - grimgrin 4y ago
    re: “priceless”, i mean i agree and set alt to ctrl for the same vibe on linux and windows but otoh ppl have strong opinions for the exact same reasons (hand/finger dexterity) by assigning ctrl to caps lock less weird-pinky/hand-rotation does feel like a win, though
  - still_grokking 4y ago
    > 1) It will become hard to use Ctrl-based text navigation shortcuts (such as Ctrl+left to navigate one word left) with one hand Why would it be any different than on macOS? > 2) Ctrl+Tab will now use the same physical keys as Alt+Tab used to, and your brain will never heal from this (at least mine refuses to). So why not switch this also? Where's the problem? At least on Linux there are no issues. It's mostly clicking one checkbox, and changing "Alt-Tab" to "Ctrl-Tab".
    - nikitaga 4y ago
      > Why would it be any different than on macOS? Because in MacOS those arrow-based text shortcuts are Alt-based, not Ctrl-based, and right Alt is already located right next to the arrow keys where it's most convenient for those particular shortcuts. It does not need any remapping since in MacOS the Alt key is not used for most other system shortcuts, unlike the Ctrl key on Windows/Linux. > At least on Linux there are no issues. It's mostly clicking one checkbox, and changing "Alt-Tab" to "Ctrl-Tab". Been there tried that, on Ubuntu, last attempt a couple years ago. Does not work, many apps have Ctrl+tab hard coded to switch between their tabs, so if you make Ctrl+tab the system shortcut for switching apps, you can't switch tabs in those hardcoding apps anymore.
      - still_grokking 4y ago
        > Because in MacOS those arrow-based text shortcuts are Alt-based, not Ctrl-based, and right Alt is already located right next to the arrow keys where it's most convenient for those particular shortcuts. Where's the problem to tick a checkbox and change that? > Been there tried that, on Ubuntu, last attempt a couple years ago. Does not work, many apps have Ctrl+tab hard coded to switch between their tabs, so if you make Ctrl+tab the system shortcut for switching apps, you can't switch tabs in those hardcoding apps anymore. Once again, that are GTK problems. Just avoid GTK (v3 and later) and Electron and there are no usability issues. Simple as that. But I'm repeating myself.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
Cmd+` to switch windows within an app. For those more familiar with Windows and probably most Linux conventions, Home/End won’t behave how you want but they move to the start/end of a scrollable view (which IMO is more useful). In most any app ^a will be your Home equivalent and ^e will be your End equivalent. If that sounds weird or weirdly familiar… a subset of emacs key bindings are built in for basically all native macOS text inputs. If you get weird and hook up a full keyboard to iOS devices, works pretty much the same! (I personally use ^t quite a lot because I accidentally rtanspose letters while typing all too frequently)
- alana314 4y ago
  Woah, I love this thread. I didn't know about the tab or preference shortcuts. And I used ^A and ^E in terminal but didn't know it worked in other apps. Are these all documented somewhere?
  - pseudalopex 4y ago
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236
  - eyelidlessness 4y ago
    Besides the documentation linked by sibling comment, I believe you can also still customize them per user in ~/Library/KeyBindings/DefaultKeyBinding.dict, and reference the system defaults in /System/Library/KeyBindings/DefaultKeyBinding.dict.
still_grokking 4y ago
"Consistent shortcuts" is the main "feature" keeping me on KDE. Cmd+Shift+, opens preferences in every app. Alt+Left or Right (or Back or Forward) goes "back" and "forward", in every app that has those concepts Cmd+Tab or Cmd+Shift-Tab switches tabs, in every app that has tabs. Cmd+W closes the current tab by default, if the app has tabs, (or current window, if the app has no tabs) Cmd+Q quits the app. Etc. What's again so special about macOS? One needs only to avoid GTK stuff, Electron, and Windows Software, and one gets perfectly consistent behavior. And those behaviors can be "even" configured globally! (That's something to mention specially of course when talking to Mac users as such an advanced feature like "configurability" is notoriously missing in the Apple universe).
- rileymat2 4y ago
  I switch between linux, windows and mac on a daily basis. Mac short cuts are far more consistent. Now, copy and paste. It is cmd-c in mac, in ubuntu you can’t tell me unless I tell you if I am in a terminal or not. But most of all, readline shortcuts ctrl-a goes to the beginning of a line in nearly ever mac app. Not so in linux.
  - choko 4y ago
    I find Mac less consistent, especially around home/end key behavior. In some places, home goes to the start of a page, in others, the start of a line. In addition, the key combinations and gui behavior are annoying. Ever try to cmd+tab to a minimized window? You have to do finger gymnastics to add an extra key to get that window to open. Other than the cli, I've seen little benefit in using a Mac vs. a decent PC with just about any Linux distro or Windows.
- nikitaga 4y ago
  Since you mention GTK, I assume that must be the root of my problem – I keep trying Ubuntu and some other GNOME distros, haven't tried KDE. Ubuntu was definitely a mess when it comes to consistent shortcuts when I last tried it (a couple years ago).
  - 4y ago
wodenokoto 4y ago
I'm less impressed by MacOS shortcuts than you are. Out of the box, several short-cuts conflicts. Moreover, on non-US keyboards, many MacOS shortcuts are simply not reachable.
- coolandsmartrr 4y ago
  Some of the offenders surprisingly include newer Apple apps like Books. Some of the commands are not included with shortcuts. Seems like they weren't thinking too much about desktop users when they ported it from iOS.
- lultimouomo 4y ago
  The non-US keyboard thing is frankly ridiculous, on my layout I cannot even switch between windows of an app... Quelle finesse!
danschuller 4y ago
Really what I want is to define my shortcuts globally somewhere like github and just have every machine/piece of software I ever use refer to that.
pdpi 4y ago
On a similar note, it's pretty damn handy that just about every text box in macOS implements readline keyboard shortcuts. Also, having ctrl and cmd be separate keys is a godsend. No, I don't want to kill the running app, I want to copy some text.
- kps 4y ago
  For me it's word erase (Ctrl-W). CUA was a mistake, and ‘desktop Linux’ slavishly imitating Windows was a mistake.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dolmen 4y ago
Consistency???? "[" on AZERTY french keyboard requires to type Option+Shift+5 "]" on AZERTY french keyboard requires to type Option+Shift+) I can't even imagine how the equivalent of Cmd+[ could be a "shortcut".
kitsunesoba 4y ago
The big one for me is that Cmd+C and Cmd+V do the exact same thing in Terminal as they do everywhere else, unlike with terminal emulators under Linux. Copy and paste are too ingrained from decades of Mac/Win use to fight against muscle memory for that one exception.

sofixa 4y ago

For the tabs Ctrl+tab/Ctrl+shift+tab is the standard on Windows and Linux, so i can see how some apps can forget about macOS' specialness.

nikitaga 4y ago
Speaking of this specialness... having the main system shortcut modifier – Cmd – physically located under both your thumbs is priceless. In contrast, the Ctrl keys are usually located such that they're best accessed with your pinkies. Who thought that making people use their weakest fingers for the most common shortcuts is a good idea? Could you remap your keys to have Ctrl keys under the thumbs in Windows / Linux? Yes, but then: 1) It will become hard to use Ctrl-based text navigation shortcuts (such as Ctrl+left to navigate one word left) with one hand, and 2) Ctrl+Tab will now use the same physical keys as Alt+Tab used to, and your brain will never heal from this (at least mine refuses to).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- grimgrin 4y ago
  re: “priceless”, i mean i agree and set alt to ctrl for the same vibe on linux and windows but otoh ppl have strong opinions for the exact same reasons (hand/finger dexterity) by assigning ctrl to caps lock less weird-pinky/hand-rotation does feel like a win, though
- still_grokking 4y ago
  > 1) It will become hard to use Ctrl-based text navigation shortcuts (such as Ctrl+left to navigate one word left) with one hand Why would it be any different than on macOS? > 2) Ctrl+Tab will now use the same physical keys as Alt+Tab used to, and your brain will never heal from this (at least mine refuses to). So why not switch this also? Where's the problem? At least on Linux there are no issues. It's mostly clicking one checkbox, and changing "Alt-Tab" to "Ctrl-Tab".
  - nikitaga 4y ago
    > Why would it be any different than on macOS? Because in MacOS those arrow-based text shortcuts are Alt-based, not Ctrl-based, and right Alt is already located right next to the arrow keys where it's most convenient for those particular shortcuts. It does not need any remapping since in MacOS the Alt key is not used for most other system shortcuts, unlike the Ctrl key on Windows/Linux. > At least on Linux there are no issues. It's mostly clicking one checkbox, and changing "Alt-Tab" to "Ctrl-Tab". Been there tried that, on Ubuntu, last attempt a couple years ago. Does not work, many apps have Ctrl+tab hard coded to switch between their tabs, so if you make Ctrl+tab the system shortcut for switching apps, you can't switch tabs in those hardcoding apps anymore.
    - still_grokking 4y ago
      > Because in MacOS those arrow-based text shortcuts are Alt-based, not Ctrl-based, and right Alt is already located right next to the arrow keys where it's most convenient for those particular shortcuts. Where's the problem to tick a checkbox and change that? > Been there tried that, on Ubuntu, last attempt a couple years ago. Does not work, many apps have Ctrl+tab hard coded to switch between their tabs, so if you make Ctrl+tab the system shortcut for switching apps, you can't switch tabs in those hardcoding apps anymore. Once again, that are GTK problems. Just avoid GTK (v3 and later) and Electron and there are no usability issues. Simple as that. But I'm repeating myself.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

Cmd+` to switch windows within an app. For those more familiar with Windows and probably most Linux conventions, Home/End won’t behave how you want but they move to the start/end of a scrollable view (which IMO is more useful). In most any app ^a will be your Home equivalent and ^e will be your End equivalent. If that sounds weird or weirdly familiar… a subset of emacs key bindings are built in for basically all native macOS text inputs. If you get weird and hook up a full keyboard to iOS devices, works pretty much the same! (I personally use ^t quite a lot because I accidentally rtanspose letters while typing all too frequently)

alana314 4y ago
Woah, I love this thread. I didn't know about the tab or preference shortcuts. And I used ^A and ^E in terminal but didn't know it worked in other apps. Are these all documented somewhere?
- pseudalopex 4y ago
  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  Besides the documentation linked by sibling comment, I believe you can also still customize them per user in ~/Library/KeyBindings/DefaultKeyBinding.dict, and reference the system defaults in /System/Library/KeyBindings/DefaultKeyBinding.dict.

still_grokking 4y ago

"Consistent shortcuts" is the main "feature" keeping me on KDE. Cmd+Shift+, opens preferences in every app. Alt+Left or Right (or Back or Forward) goes "back" and "forward", in every app that has those concepts Cmd+Tab or Cmd+Shift-Tab switches tabs, in every app that has tabs. Cmd+W closes the current tab by default, if the app has tabs, (or current window, if the app has no tabs) Cmd+Q quits the app. Etc. What's again so special about macOS? One needs only to avoid GTK stuff, Electron, and Windows Software, and one gets perfectly consistent behavior. And those behaviors can be "even" configured globally! (That's something to mention specially of course when talking to Mac users as such an advanced feature like "configurability" is notoriously missing in the Apple universe).

rileymat2 4y ago
I switch between linux, windows and mac on a daily basis. Mac short cuts are far more consistent. Now, copy and paste. It is cmd-c in mac, in ubuntu you can’t tell me unless I tell you if I am in a terminal or not. But most of all, readline shortcuts ctrl-a goes to the beginning of a line in nearly ever mac app. Not so in linux.
- choko 4y ago
  I find Mac less consistent, especially around home/end key behavior. In some places, home goes to the start of a page, in others, the start of a line. In addition, the key combinations and gui behavior are annoying. Ever try to cmd+tab to a minimized window? You have to do finger gymnastics to add an extra key to get that window to open. Other than the cli, I've seen little benefit in using a Mac vs. a decent PC with just about any Linux distro or Windows.
nikitaga 4y ago
Since you mention GTK, I assume that must be the root of my problem – I keep trying Ubuntu and some other GNOME distros, haven't tried KDE. Ubuntu was definitely a mess when it comes to consistent shortcuts when I last tried it (a couple years ago).
- 4y ago

wodenokoto 4y ago

I'm less impressed by MacOS shortcuts than you are. Out of the box, several short-cuts conflicts. Moreover, on non-US keyboards, many MacOS shortcuts are simply not reachable.

coolandsmartrr 4y ago
Some of the offenders surprisingly include newer Apple apps like Books. Some of the commands are not included with shortcuts. Seems like they weren't thinking too much about desktop users when they ported it from iOS.
lultimouomo 4y ago
The non-US keyboard thing is frankly ridiculous, on my layout I cannot even switch between windows of an app... Quelle finesse!

danschuller 4y ago

Really what I want is to define my shortcuts globally somewhere like github and just have every machine/piece of software I ever use refer to that.

pdpi 4y ago

On a similar note, it's pretty damn handy that just about every text box in macOS implements readline keyboard shortcuts. Also, having ctrl and cmd be separate keys is a godsend. No, I don't want to kill the running app, I want to copy some text.

kps 4y ago
For me it's word erase (Ctrl-W). CUA was a mistake, and ‘desktop Linux’ slavishly imitating Windows was a mistake.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dolmen 4y ago

Consistency???? "[" on AZERTY french keyboard requires to type Option+Shift+5 "]" on AZERTY french keyboard requires to type Option+Shift+) I can't even imagine how the equivalent of Cmd+[ could be a "shortcut".

kitsunesoba 4y ago

The big one for me is that Cmd+C and Cmd+V do the exact same thing in Terminal as they do everywhere else, unlike with terminal emulators under Linux. Copy and paste are too ingrained from decades of Mac/Win use to fight against muscle memory for that one exception.