4 ms·

>Edit: as if to prove my point about racism, in this very thread there is already a comment talking about Indian nepotism. I was wondering if you could clarify

>Edit: as if to prove my point about racism, in this very thread there is already a comment talking about Indian nepotism. I was wondering if you could clarify this. Why is the caste system fair game to criticize but nepotism isn't?

ummonk 4y ago
I didn't say either was fair game to criticize. Criticism of both tends to provide cover to or be motivated by racism. Especially when there isn't equal emphasis on WASP or Jewish nepotism, when most early tech companies tended to have mostly WASP or Jewish leadership.
- claytongulick 4y ago
  > Criticism of both tends to provide cover to or be motivated by racism. Good example of association fallacy [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
- mlyle 4y ago
  I think even in diverse workplaces, there are a whole lot of islands of one ethnicity or another-- including very, very white groups. More than you would get by chance. This means a whole lot of racist personnel decisions are being made in all directions, and in a diverse workplace they kind of net-out OK? In any case, ignoring one awful problem because there are others that may be of higher magnitude (or may not...) doesn't seem like a good plan.
  - ummonk 4y ago
    "This means a whole lot of racist personnel decisions are being made in all directions" - not necessarily actually. Unless you count team / company choice by a prospective employee as racist. People often self-sort into cultural bubbles they feel most comfortable in.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      > People often self-sort into cultural bubbles they feel most comfortable in. If I sort myself into an all-white cultural bubble, and then later hire all the people from my network into the groups I run, etc-- I end up making de-facto racist hiring decisions. So even the situation you describe does eventually trend towards racism. And, in any case, I think back to one of my early experiences in industry. We had groups that were 95% one ethnicity. I am pretty sure based on organizational culture that I would not have been successful in one of the non-white ones, and I'm not sure that people from those groups would have been successful transplanted into in the majority white groups. I think in practice the organization was really bad from a DEI standpoint, but on paper probably looked really, really good.
- nostrebored 4y ago
  Diversity of background in most VC funded companies tends to be quite high? I have never seen a team lead by a WASP or Jewish manager that has hired exclusively WASP or Jewish team members in any FAANG company. I have however seen teams that are exclusively Indian, even in diverse cities. At some point it comes down to network for early stage companies. But why is this true in FAANG companies where hiring pipelines are robust?
DubiousPusher 4y ago
Because it's a negative trait being generally applied to a people group based upon their race. And it comes more from a cultural stereotype than from any basis in observable evidence.

ummonk 4y ago

I didn't say either was fair game to criticize. Criticism of both tends to provide cover to or be motivated by racism. Especially when there isn't equal emphasis on WASP or Jewish nepotism, when most early tech companies tended to have mostly WASP or Jewish leadership.

claytongulick 4y ago
> Criticism of both tends to provide cover to or be motivated by racism. Good example of association fallacy [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
mlyle 4y ago
I think even in diverse workplaces, there are a whole lot of islands of one ethnicity or another-- including very, very white groups. More than you would get by chance. This means a whole lot of racist personnel decisions are being made in all directions, and in a diverse workplace they kind of net-out OK? In any case, ignoring one awful problem because there are others that may be of higher magnitude (or may not...) doesn't seem like a good plan.
- ummonk 4y ago
  "This means a whole lot of racist personnel decisions are being made in all directions" - not necessarily actually. Unless you count team / company choice by a prospective employee as racist. People often self-sort into cultural bubbles they feel most comfortable in.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > People often self-sort into cultural bubbles they feel most comfortable in. If I sort myself into an all-white cultural bubble, and then later hire all the people from my network into the groups I run, etc-- I end up making de-facto racist hiring decisions. So even the situation you describe does eventually trend towards racism. And, in any case, I think back to one of my early experiences in industry. We had groups that were 95% one ethnicity. I am pretty sure based on organizational culture that I would not have been successful in one of the non-white ones, and I'm not sure that people from those groups would have been successful transplanted into in the majority white groups. I think in practice the organization was really bad from a DEI standpoint, but on paper probably looked really, really good.
nostrebored 4y ago
Diversity of background in most VC funded companies tends to be quite high? I have never seen a team lead by a WASP or Jewish manager that has hired exclusively WASP or Jewish team members in any FAANG company. I have however seen teams that are exclusively Indian, even in diverse cities. At some point it comes down to network for early stage companies. But why is this true in FAANG companies where hiring pipelines are robust?

DubiousPusher 4y ago

Because it's a negative trait being generally applied to a people group based upon their race. And it comes more from a cultural stereotype than from any basis in observable evidence.