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Being healthy and being fit is mostly about being healthy and being fit. There are obviously countless ways to get closer to that goal, the gym and calorie coun

Being healthy and being fit is mostly about being healthy and being fit. There are obviously countless ways to get closer to that goal, the gym and calorie counting being one way. Saying stuff like 'we should try to focus on whole foods and not calories' is a pretty bad take if you ask me. Contrasting that immediately with 'a body builder prepping for a show' is just ridiculous. One is good advice to form part of a healthy lifestyle, the other is a way of life for a tiny group of professional athletes. There goes more into a healthy diet than just eating lots of whole foods - although whole foods are obviously awesome and healthy. Notice that the linked article compares two groups eating processed and processed with the one eating the processed foods eating 500 more calories a day. They don't gain weight magically but because they ate the less satiating food and as a result ate more calories. And simply saying 'Instead we should focus on daily fun movements that we like to do. So it doesn't feel like a chore and easy to maintain within your lifestyle.' is such a weird take. Have you ever considered that some people enjoy going to the gym? On the other hand I personally couldn't imagine anything more boring than body weight exercises. In the end it is up to the individual to chose the lifestyle that they enjoy, so please stop selling your personal favorite as if any other choices 'are large time investments that can be better spent elsewhere'. I very much enjoy my time spend at the gym, thank you very much.

appel_user 4y ago
That is the link from the post you are replying too it's from Harvard Medical. https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/stop-counting-calories https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/stop-counting.... """ "This idea of 'a calorie in and a calorie out' when it comes to weight loss is not only antiquated, it's just wrong," says Dr. Fatima Cody Stanford, an obesity specialist and assistant professor of medicine and pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. """ edit: | And simply saying 'Instead we should focus on daily fun movements that we like to do. So it doesn't feel like a chore and easy to maintain within your lifestyle.' is such a weird take Did you watched youtube link provided? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWuKIlbybqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWuKIlbybqY Because after watching it, it makes allot of sense. And your points are all addressed there.
- Pius_IX 4y ago
  Yes? And even in that article there is the following paragraph which implies that the number of calories consumed is important: '"People who ate the ultra-processed food gained weight," says Dr. Stanford. Each group was given meals with the same number of calories and instructed to eat as much as they wanted, but when participants ate the processed foods, they ate 500 calories more each day on average. The same people's calorie intake decreased when they ate the unprocessed foods.' I am *not* saying that 'losing weight is a matter of simple math' by counting calories as the article suggests. That is a a stupid thing to say and kind of a strawman. I am saying that 'investing time in tracking calories' (A thing the other guy implied being a waste of time) is a great tool in a tool-kit. I am also saying that eating whole foods is a great idea, but - by itself - not the ultimate solution either. I'd further say that eating healthy isn't just about losing weight, it is about a number of things for different people - some need to gain weight for example. In addition to that, I think the article does a disservice to counting calories and is just generally written in a sloppy way. While obviously nothing it says is wrong, it also doesn't tell you a lot of other true things. For example that it can be quite easy for some people to eat enough healthy whole food to grow quite fat or at least to not lose weight (If that is the goal). It also doesn't mention that counting calories helped countless people lose a lot of weight. But the most important flaw is that it doesn't tell you the intended target audience of the information. Do I need to eat tons of McDonalds and be way overweight? Or do pasta and pesto twice a week count while eating lots of vegetables on the other days? Will I magically lose weight if I don't eat those two meals a week? What about if I lead a very active lifestyle and work in construction? What if I am a hobby athlete and just want to lose 10kg while already eating healthy whole foods? Depending on you personally the information in this article is probably useless. I mean for gods sake, they use The biggest loser as an example, hardly relevant for most people (Outside the US? I don't know). Also note that in the 3 reasons they list, only *1* is something you are actually able to control, and that one reason breaks down to *people eat less calories*. If they want to convince me that counting calories is a bad idea they should really find better arguments. 'putting the emphasis on improving diet quality and making sustainable lifestyle improvements to achieve a healthy weight.' as described in the article is such a non-committal take. No surprise, eating good food and making livestyle improvements (Whatever that is) is a good idea. Reality is obviously way more complicated than a small essay on the internet can do justice. As such I personally kind of despise these articles, whether they be from Harvard Medical or Mens Healthy. Especially if they don't acknowledge this and instead write the article in a way that seems to imply that it contains all the information you need.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
User23 4y ago
> On the other hand I personally couldn't imagine anything more boring than body weight exercises. I’m with you here. I can push and pull a respectable amount for my age and body weight on a barbell, but with the exception of pull ups and dips I also find body weight exercises to be boring. I do wish though I’d trained as a gymnast in my youth. Somehow I don’t think I’d find ring planche push ups boring. But sadly the progression from where I’m at to there is way too much without a daily coach.
Attummm 4y ago
Seems like you misread the thread. The comment is against the training schedules that have been provided that are only about gym and calorie tracking. And that we "could" also do other things. Like in the video from the bioneer. But it seems you read "should". My comment is not against training of any kind. And if the gym is your place where you get it done great, but if you have busy life and your unable to find the time or are unable to commit regularily. Then there are other options that will fit anyone schedule.
- zamfi 4y ago
  > Instead we should focus on > And for food we should try to focus on This post contains some very odd gaslighting: your earlier post says "should"—twice—but you are claiming here that the person responding to you incorrectly read "should"? Perhaps you meant to write could but wrote should instead?
  - Attummm 4y ago
    If someone likes to go to gym, then that would fall under movements that they like. We are currently in obesity epidemic. That's only getting worse[0]. Lets try some new ideas instead of calories which is based of steam engines in 1800. The human body is much more complex. What research is showing is that daily excersice is great for the overall health and strength like as the article posted. And that excersice can help the brain[1][2] with aging [3] and much more. [0]https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/05/1117402 https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/05/1117402 [1]https://neurosciencenews.com/walking-cognition-20876/ https://neurosciencenews.com/walking-cognition-20876/ [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4915811/#:~:text=Exercise%20induces%20beneficial%20responses%20in,alleviation%20of%20depression%20and%20anxiety https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4915811/#:~:tex... [3]https://scitechdaily.com/researchers-discover-how-nearly-everybody-can-increase-their-lifespan/ https://scitechdaily.com/researchers-discover-how-nearly-eve...
    - cma 4y ago
      This does seem like even more gaslighting, you said: " I would like to argue that being healthy and fit is not about the gym, or investing time in tracking calories." Instead we should focus on on daily fun movements that we like to do." Now those daily fun movements include the gym if you like the gym? But you still are saying they should do something daily instead of periodic gym, not that they could.
iosono88 4y ago
Hail Christ! My Musclar Christian brother!
- Pius_IX 4y ago
  And honor to the blessed mother, my even more muscular brother <3
mister_mister 4y ago
"the other is a way of life for a tiny group of professional athletes." The issue is that the links provided by first poster are advocating for such weight loss strategies. While they themselves are on steroids.
- nonameiguess 4y ago
  That isn't true, though. Neither the article nor the comment you're referring to say anything at all about weight loss. In fact, while most of the links in the top comment are guys who care somewhat about staying lean, Mike Israetel explicitly does not. His goal is just to get as big as humanly possible given his genetic constraints (but also while doing steroids). That is entirely legitimate when the topic of the study being discussed here is whether infrequent or more frequent lifting builds more muscle. Your comment is non-sequitur. Perhaps weight loss is the majority fitness goal in industrialized nations of the world today, but it is still a legitimate and separate topic worth discussing for people who succeed or were never fat in the first place, but still aren't necessarily all that "fit," to think about what they can do to achieve some goal beyond just not being obese. You'd think Hacker News of all places would understand this. For the majority of the world, simple tech literacy is a goal and presumably a whole lot of research and think pieces discuss that kind of thing, how to best promote it and what not. But everybody here is already tech literate. We want to be technically excellent, not literate. That is a different goal and the tools you need to get there are different. The above resources are not promoting how to not be obese. They're promoting how to be athletically excellent.
  - mister_mister 4y ago
    The links provided themselves point to programs, the information is to sell courses. If you take steroids your body will respond different then normal people. Using steroids and then to promote your programs that act like it's possible to achieve them without is dangerous. The strain they will be able to put on their bodies are not the same as without. Even with steroids the strain is so high it can lead to serious life changing injuries like at least one the some of the linked have found out. There many young people that have used steroids and have completely worn out joints.

appel_user 4y ago

That is the link from the post you are replying too it's from Harvard Medical. https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/stop-counting-calories https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/stop-counting.... """ "This idea of 'a calorie in and a calorie out' when it comes to weight loss is not only antiquated, it's just wrong," says Dr. Fatima Cody Stanford, an obesity specialist and assistant professor of medicine and pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. """ edit: | And simply saying 'Instead we should focus on daily fun movements that we like to do. So it doesn't feel like a chore and easy to maintain within your lifestyle.' is such a weird take Did you watched youtube link provided? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWuKIlbybqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWuKIlbybqY Because after watching it, it makes allot of sense. And your points are all addressed there.

Pius_IX 4y ago
Yes? And even in that article there is the following paragraph which implies that the number of calories consumed is important: '"People who ate the ultra-processed food gained weight," says Dr. Stanford. Each group was given meals with the same number of calories and instructed to eat as much as they wanted, but when participants ate the processed foods, they ate 500 calories more each day on average. The same people's calorie intake decreased when they ate the unprocessed foods.' I am *not* saying that 'losing weight is a matter of simple math' by counting calories as the article suggests. That is a a stupid thing to say and kind of a strawman. I am saying that 'investing time in tracking calories' (A thing the other guy implied being a waste of time) is a great tool in a tool-kit. I am also saying that eating whole foods is a great idea, but - by itself - not the ultimate solution either. I'd further say that eating healthy isn't just about losing weight, it is about a number of things for different people - some need to gain weight for example. In addition to that, I think the article does a disservice to counting calories and is just generally written in a sloppy way. While obviously nothing it says is wrong, it also doesn't tell you a lot of other true things. For example that it can be quite easy for some people to eat enough healthy whole food to grow quite fat or at least to not lose weight (If that is the goal). It also doesn't mention that counting calories helped countless people lose a lot of weight. But the most important flaw is that it doesn't tell you the intended target audience of the information. Do I need to eat tons of McDonalds and be way overweight? Or do pasta and pesto twice a week count while eating lots of vegetables on the other days? Will I magically lose weight if I don't eat those two meals a week? What about if I lead a very active lifestyle and work in construction? What if I am a hobby athlete and just want to lose 10kg while already eating healthy whole foods? Depending on you personally the information in this article is probably useless. I mean for gods sake, they use The biggest loser as an example, hardly relevant for most people (Outside the US? I don't know). Also note that in the 3 reasons they list, only *1* is something you are actually able to control, and that one reason breaks down to *people eat less calories*. If they want to convince me that counting calories is a bad idea they should really find better arguments. 'putting the emphasis on improving diet quality and making sustainable lifestyle improvements to achieve a healthy weight.' as described in the article is such a non-committal take. No surprise, eating good food and making livestyle improvements (Whatever that is) is a good idea. Reality is obviously way more complicated than a small essay on the internet can do justice. As such I personally kind of despise these articles, whether they be from Harvard Medical or Mens Healthy. Especially if they don't acknowledge this and instead write the article in a way that seems to imply that it contains all the information you need.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

User23 4y ago

> On the other hand I personally couldn't imagine anything more boring than body weight exercises. I’m with you here. I can push and pull a respectable amount for my age and body weight on a barbell, but with the exception of pull ups and dips I also find body weight exercises to be boring. I do wish though I’d trained as a gymnast in my youth. Somehow I don’t think I’d find ring planche push ups boring. But sadly the progression from where I’m at to there is way too much without a daily coach.

Attummm 4y ago

Seems like you misread the thread. The comment is against the training schedules that have been provided that are only about gym and calorie tracking. And that we "could" also do other things. Like in the video from the bioneer. But it seems you read "should". My comment is not against training of any kind. And if the gym is your place where you get it done great, but if you have busy life and your unable to find the time or are unable to commit regularily. Then there are other options that will fit anyone schedule.

zamfi 4y ago
> Instead we should focus on > And for food we should try to focus on This post contains some very odd gaslighting: your earlier post says "should"—twice—but you are claiming here that the person responding to you incorrectly read "should"? Perhaps you meant to write could but wrote should instead?
- Attummm 4y ago
  If someone likes to go to gym, then that would fall under movements that they like. We are currently in obesity epidemic. That's only getting worse[0]. Lets try some new ideas instead of calories which is based of steam engines in 1800. The human body is much more complex. What research is showing is that daily excersice is great for the overall health and strength like as the article posted. And that excersice can help the brain[1][2] with aging [3] and much more. [0]https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/05/1117402 https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/05/1117402 [1]https://neurosciencenews.com/walking-cognition-20876/ https://neurosciencenews.com/walking-cognition-20876/ [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4915811/#:~:text=Exercise%20induces%20beneficial%20responses%20in,alleviation%20of%20depression%20and%20anxiety https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4915811/#:~:tex... [3]https://scitechdaily.com/researchers-discover-how-nearly-everybody-can-increase-their-lifespan/ https://scitechdaily.com/researchers-discover-how-nearly-eve...
  - cma 4y ago
    This does seem like even more gaslighting, you said: " I would like to argue that being healthy and fit is not about the gym, or investing time in tracking calories." Instead we should focus on on daily fun movements that we like to do." Now those daily fun movements include the gym if you like the gym? But you still are saying they should do something daily instead of periodic gym, not that they could.

iosono88 4y ago

Hail Christ! My Musclar Christian brother!

Pius_IX 4y ago
And honor to the blessed mother, my even more muscular brother <3

mister_mister 4y ago

"the other is a way of life for a tiny group of professional athletes." The issue is that the links provided by first poster are advocating for such weight loss strategies. While they themselves are on steroids.

nonameiguess 4y ago
That isn't true, though. Neither the article nor the comment you're referring to say anything at all about weight loss. In fact, while most of the links in the top comment are guys who care somewhat about staying lean, Mike Israetel explicitly does not. His goal is just to get as big as humanly possible given his genetic constraints (but also while doing steroids). That is entirely legitimate when the topic of the study being discussed here is whether infrequent or more frequent lifting builds more muscle. Your comment is non-sequitur. Perhaps weight loss is the majority fitness goal in industrialized nations of the world today, but it is still a legitimate and separate topic worth discussing for people who succeed or were never fat in the first place, but still aren't necessarily all that "fit," to think about what they can do to achieve some goal beyond just not being obese. You'd think Hacker News of all places would understand this. For the majority of the world, simple tech literacy is a goal and presumably a whole lot of research and think pieces discuss that kind of thing, how to best promote it and what not. But everybody here is already tech literate. We want to be technically excellent, not literate. That is a different goal and the tools you need to get there are different. The above resources are not promoting how to not be obese. They're promoting how to be athletically excellent.
- mister_mister 4y ago
  The links provided themselves point to programs, the information is to sell courses. If you take steroids your body will respond different then normal people. Using steroids and then to promote your programs that act like it's possible to achieve them without is dangerous. The strain they will be able to put on their bodies are not the same as without. Even with steroids the strain is so high it can lead to serious life changing injuries like at least one the some of the linked have found out. There many young people that have used steroids and have completely worn out joints.