3 ms·
how is that not long term thinking?
by rob_c 4y ago
how is that not long term thinking?
- matwood 4y agoBecause second order can also be immediate, it just may not be a direct intention of the action.
- rob_c 4y agoI... If we're going to argue the temporal component of planning you better not look back over the last 3 years...
- Ensorceled 4y ago> > The 2nd order effect may be in 5s time > how is that not long term thinking? What does "long term" mean to you ... 5s (i.e. 5 seconds) is pretty short term to me.
- rob_c 4y agoLong term being further down the line, i.e. net result in 5 years is still the same regardless of how quickly things evolve. I'd argue that because happens in 5min that's an immediate effect regardless of if it happens after something or not. How is there any higher order evolution to that? Are you trying to argue that people can't cope with time in a plan therefore it must be a higher order thinking to understand the rapid evolution of something?
- thfuran 4y agoNo, time has nothing to do with it, only the length of the causal chain. That's why it's not really "long term" thinking even if higher order effects might sometimes not be felt immediately.
- tinco 4y agoIt is long term thinking. But long term thinking is not necessarily 2nd order thinking. It's basically good long term thinking, where you don't just come up with a plan that addresses a problem, but you also enumerate all the secondary effects, and the effects of those effects, etc. Any good long term thinking would do that, but it's not always clear if people really have thought it through. If someone says ban ICE vehicles so that we might have better air quality and reduced rate of climate change, have they taken into account what the economic, cultural and political ramifications of such legislation would be? They might have, someone might have, but definitely not everyone has. Who had "Texas secedes from the USA" on their list of possible outcomes of their long term plan for addressing climate change?
- rob_c 4y agoIt is but it isn't? Followed by some banter about illegals. This comment in it's blind ignorance is a godsent gift to people of a leftwing political bias...
- tinco 4y agoI don't follow, what do you mean? Is there blind ignorance in my comment? edit: oh you mean you don't understand how something can be a superset of something else without being the same set. So I'm saying there's long term thinking with 2nd order thinking, and there's long term thinking without 2nd order thinking.
- snapcaster 4y agoSome second order thinking might involve long term thinking but my understanding of what is commonly meant is: Long term thinking is termporally based, what will X look like in Y amounts of time Second (or third) order thinking, is based on response to consequences or changes. Could be over a long term, or over a short term. This seems pretty straightforward but you seem to take issue with it. I'm curious what you think is being messed up by people using these definitions?