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Honest question: What would be a good reason to learn Japanese nowadays, with all economical factors having run dry, over languages like Chinese or Korean? The

Honest question: What would be a good reason to learn Japanese nowadays, with all economical factors having run dry, over languages like Chinese or Korean? The only reason I can think of is to read Manga / watch Anime in the original language and get the subtleties lost in translation, but that hardly is a good motivator compared to the other two I mentioned in terms of business use.

NhanH 4y ago
For practical purpose, Chinese is a class on its own that I don't think any language besides English can be compared with in the next 50 years. Japanese and Korean should roughly have the same utilities, which mostly depends on your local living area. In Vietnam, Japanese should be more beneficial. But really, if you want to be practical, just learn English + Chinese.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  Apologies if I'm mistaken, but I take it you are Vietnamese? I'm curious as to why you say Japanese would be more helpful in Vietnam. Is there a large Japanese minority in Vietnam, compared to Koreans and Chinese? Asian languages always fascinated me, though I never learned them past some feeble attempts and learning Japanese, and later Korean, years ago. It's interesting to contrast with the situation in European where most languages ultimately have a common(Indo-European or Uralic, with some isolates like Basque) origin, and a lot of languages are mutually intelligible with eachother. In Asia the situation is very different. There are lots of different families. Thai(Kra-Dai), Chinese(Sino-Tibetan), Korean(Koreanic), Japanese(Japonic), Vietnamese(Austroasiatic) and Mongolian(Mongolic) seem to live in their own families, with any possible common origin between two or more these families being unclear and highly controversial in linguistics. Chinese has played a role similar to Latin historically, used for writing by the intellectual elites, and having major influences in terms of writing and vocabulary.Evolving into the kana+kanji writing system in Japanese, but being mostly replaced by Hangul in Korean and completely(afaik) by the latin alphabet in Vietnamese.
  - NhanH 4y ago
    I need to clarify that when I said "more beneficial", I was comparing Japanese with Korean. Chinese should beat them both very handily. When I was started learning Japanese more than 10 years ago, my tutor actually said she regretted learning Japanese instead of Chinese. Even back then, Chinese provides you with alot more opportunity. Japan has a lot more investment into Vietnam than Korea (both officially from government, see (0), as well as Japanese companies either utilizing Vietnamese labor or making investment into Vietnam. So Japanese has an edge if you want to learn a second foreign language. Latin alphabet completely replaced Chinese in Vietnamese language. We still have loan word that is phonetically from Cantonese with similar meaning to the Chinese counterpart. They are being spelled entirely in Latin alphabet. They are called Han-Viet (hán-việt). (0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_development_assistance#Donor_countries_by_percentage_of_gross_national_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_development_assistanc...
GolDDranks 4y ago
For me, during my life this far: 1) read manga / watch anime as you said 2) traveling in Japan (it's an awesome country for travel) 3) communicating with my Japanese friends 4) studying here 5) living and working here The economical factors have never meant much for me, the emotional/attachment/interest factors are the possible the only ones that could have kept me motivated to learn a language to a high level.
valenterry 4y ago
1.) You'll be exposed to a very different grammar, one that can change your way of thinking. I believe Chinese won't do that nearly as much if you are native English speaker. Not sure about Korea. 2.) You'll learn Kanji, which will give you an advantage when you want to learn Chinese. You will even be able to grasp quite a chunk of written text when you know Kanji in and out and travel to China.
- temp 4y ago
  >change your way of thinking Can you clarify what you mean by this?
  - valenterry 4y ago
    In the same way learning a new programming language with a very different/unique paradigm will make you view/perceive problems in a different way, so does learning a new natural language, given that it is different. For instance, English, French, Spanish, German all share a very similar concept of "subject verb object" but Japanese has a very different concept of conveying information. I can't explain how, because that's exactly what you only get by learning the language.
    - temp 4y ago
      >will make you view/perceive problems in a different way, so does learning a new natural language, given that it is different. This as well as the initial statement you've made is controversial and generally frowned up by linguists. We do not have any evidence that people perceive the world differently nor that it bears any relevance to how they view it. There were attempts at it, but the results are either not very convincing or are based upon farfetched conclusions. >I can't explain how Well yes, because it's a broad and unquantifiable claim as well as one that's not really supported by evidence. As such I don't think it's fair and justifiable to say that learning Japanese changes the way you think. You're just adding additional unnecessary mystique to it.
      - 4y ago
eska 4y ago
Japanese have terrible English, even relative to other Asians. Even managers often struggle with it. If you’re working in product development from overseas, you will often need to talk to those managers because the product people don’t speak English at all. Being able to speak Japanese allows you to break this barrier and dramatically increase efficiency. As a Japanese speaking programmer I basically don’t have any competition in the job market.
- sigstoat 4y ago
  > As a Japanese speaking programmer I basically don’t have any competition in the job market. does this actually come up in the hiring anywhere? you tell google you speak japanese fluently and you're just in the door? in my limited experience everyone seems content to pretend that the asian staff's english is good enough, even when it is a constant comedy of errors.
  - eska 4y ago
    Recruiters don’t think that non-Japanese people who know how to program AND speak the language well exist. So I basically show up for positions that ask for a native Japanese that’s willing to work abroad. I then promote myself based on technical and cultural skills. I’ve legitimately unstuck projects that were stuck for years and getting nowhere within few months because I improved communication and information retrieval. In Germany we have many companies that have a large amount of Japanese customers, but they get nowhere with English. Meanwhile Japanese send some engineers over as sales support instead of establishing a proper local subsidiary that is not just a proxy for sales.
- suction 4y ago
  They'll never accept your Japanese though unless you get the Keigo perfect. You might not notice it but foreigners who speak Japanese too well are thought of as losers by most Japanese ("why does he have to work in another country?"), and people who aren't perfect but pretty good will still be seen as lesser, and treated like children. Of course your mileage might differ if you're in a pure tech environment full of younger freak types, but Japanese at any level in any other industry (like trade) is a boon more than anything. It's actually a better life in Japan to pretend you're a bumbling gaijin than an expert in all things Japanese. The women interested in real foreigners are also way more fun than those who want a weeaboo foreigner.
grapeskin 4y ago
If you’re learning a language only for money, your studying efforts are probably going to burn out fast. Most people I know who learned a second language on their own volition did it because they were interested in the country or some cultural element. Or, frankly, had a fetish for the people in that area—that’s an absolutely massive motivator that most people won’t openly state. One language I learned was motivated simply because I liked the food there. I like traveling in that country, eating new stuff, and looking up recipes in that language to make those dishes authentically at home. Money would be nice. But I have zero plans to get a job speaking that language.
tjpnz 4y ago
If you live in Tokyo there's serious money to be made as a bilingual software engineer in some industries.
- tforcram 4y ago
  How would that compare with US based pay? I'm bilingual (brushing up on my kanji with wanikani) and considering moving to Japan, but I've always heard the comp packages aren't great.
  - ryan_lane 4y ago
    Software Engineering salaries at Japanese companies range between $100-200k (with a normal exchange rate, right now it's closer to $80-160k), with no equity, for senior (10+ YOE) engineers. Most companies also include a yearly bonus that's equivalent to 1 month salary. The highest paying Japanese companies tend to pay less than 1/2 of the total comp you can expect in the bay area, but may be closer to competitive to a comp package in somewhere like Atlanta or Austin.
- ryan_lane 4y ago
  I guess this depends on where you're coming from. Japanese salaries for software engineering tend to be quite low, and companies do not offer equity. The highest paying software engineering jobs in Japan are for foreign, english-speaking companies. If you're aiming to work for a Japanese company, and you're N1 in Japanese, and native-level english, you'll probably be worth more, but I doubt it would compare to working for Google, Facebook, or Stripe in Japan.
  - tjpnz 4y ago
    I know of people who are making 30% more than FAANG in finance and medical. But it should also be said that FAANG comp in Japan isn't particularly high. For anyone curious this site provides some data: https://opensalary.jp/en/ https://opensalary.jp/en/

NhanH 4y ago

For practical purpose, Chinese is a class on its own that I don't think any language besides English can be compared with in the next 50 years. Japanese and Korean should roughly have the same utilities, which mostly depends on your local living area. In Vietnam, Japanese should be more beneficial. But really, if you want to be practical, just learn English + Chinese.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
Apologies if I'm mistaken, but I take it you are Vietnamese? I'm curious as to why you say Japanese would be more helpful in Vietnam. Is there a large Japanese minority in Vietnam, compared to Koreans and Chinese? Asian languages always fascinated me, though I never learned them past some feeble attempts and learning Japanese, and later Korean, years ago. It's interesting to contrast with the situation in European where most languages ultimately have a common(Indo-European or Uralic, with some isolates like Basque) origin, and a lot of languages are mutually intelligible with eachother. In Asia the situation is very different. There are lots of different families. Thai(Kra-Dai), Chinese(Sino-Tibetan), Korean(Koreanic), Japanese(Japonic), Vietnamese(Austroasiatic) and Mongolian(Mongolic) seem to live in their own families, with any possible common origin between two or more these families being unclear and highly controversial in linguistics. Chinese has played a role similar to Latin historically, used for writing by the intellectual elites, and having major influences in terms of writing and vocabulary.Evolving into the kana+kanji writing system in Japanese, but being mostly replaced by Hangul in Korean and completely(afaik) by the latin alphabet in Vietnamese.
- NhanH 4y ago
  I need to clarify that when I said "more beneficial", I was comparing Japanese with Korean. Chinese should beat them both very handily. When I was started learning Japanese more than 10 years ago, my tutor actually said she regretted learning Japanese instead of Chinese. Even back then, Chinese provides you with alot more opportunity. Japan has a lot more investment into Vietnam than Korea (both officially from government, see (0), as well as Japanese companies either utilizing Vietnamese labor or making investment into Vietnam. So Japanese has an edge if you want to learn a second foreign language. Latin alphabet completely replaced Chinese in Vietnamese language. We still have loan word that is phonetically from Cantonese with similar meaning to the Chinese counterpart. They are being spelled entirely in Latin alphabet. They are called Han-Viet (hán-việt). (0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_development_assistance#Donor_countries_by_percentage_of_gross_national_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_development_assistanc...

GolDDranks 4y ago

For me, during my life this far: 1) read manga / watch anime as you said 2) traveling in Japan (it's an awesome country for travel) 3) communicating with my Japanese friends 4) studying here 5) living and working here The economical factors have never meant much for me, the emotional/attachment/interest factors are the possible the only ones that could have kept me motivated to learn a language to a high level.

valenterry 4y ago

1.) You'll be exposed to a very different grammar, one that can change your way of thinking. I believe Chinese won't do that nearly as much if you are native English speaker. Not sure about Korea. 2.) You'll learn Kanji, which will give you an advantage when you want to learn Chinese. You will even be able to grasp quite a chunk of written text when you know Kanji in and out and travel to China.

temp 4y ago
>change your way of thinking Can you clarify what you mean by this?
- valenterry 4y ago
  In the same way learning a new programming language with a very different/unique paradigm will make you view/perceive problems in a different way, so does learning a new natural language, given that it is different. For instance, English, French, Spanish, German all share a very similar concept of "subject verb object" but Japanese has a very different concept of conveying information. I can't explain how, because that's exactly what you only get by learning the language.
  - temp 4y ago
    >will make you view/perceive problems in a different way, so does learning a new natural language, given that it is different. This as well as the initial statement you've made is controversial and generally frowned up by linguists. We do not have any evidence that people perceive the world differently nor that it bears any relevance to how they view it. There were attempts at it, but the results are either not very convincing or are based upon farfetched conclusions. >I can't explain how Well yes, because it's a broad and unquantifiable claim as well as one that's not really supported by evidence. As such I don't think it's fair and justifiable to say that learning Japanese changes the way you think. You're just adding additional unnecessary mystique to it.
    - 4y ago

eska 4y ago

Japanese have terrible English, even relative to other Asians. Even managers often struggle with it. If you’re working in product development from overseas, you will often need to talk to those managers because the product people don’t speak English at all. Being able to speak Japanese allows you to break this barrier and dramatically increase efficiency. As a Japanese speaking programmer I basically don’t have any competition in the job market.

sigstoat 4y ago
> As a Japanese speaking programmer I basically don’t have any competition in the job market. does this actually come up in the hiring anywhere? you tell google you speak japanese fluently and you're just in the door? in my limited experience everyone seems content to pretend that the asian staff's english is good enough, even when it is a constant comedy of errors.
- eska 4y ago
  Recruiters don’t think that non-Japanese people who know how to program AND speak the language well exist. So I basically show up for positions that ask for a native Japanese that’s willing to work abroad. I then promote myself based on technical and cultural skills. I’ve legitimately unstuck projects that were stuck for years and getting nowhere within few months because I improved communication and information retrieval. In Germany we have many companies that have a large amount of Japanese customers, but they get nowhere with English. Meanwhile Japanese send some engineers over as sales support instead of establishing a proper local subsidiary that is not just a proxy for sales.
suction 4y ago
They'll never accept your Japanese though unless you get the Keigo perfect. You might not notice it but foreigners who speak Japanese too well are thought of as losers by most Japanese ("why does he have to work in another country?"), and people who aren't perfect but pretty good will still be seen as lesser, and treated like children. Of course your mileage might differ if you're in a pure tech environment full of younger freak types, but Japanese at any level in any other industry (like trade) is a boon more than anything. It's actually a better life in Japan to pretend you're a bumbling gaijin than an expert in all things Japanese. The women interested in real foreigners are also way more fun than those who want a weeaboo foreigner.

grapeskin 4y ago

If you’re learning a language only for money, your studying efforts are probably going to burn out fast. Most people I know who learned a second language on their own volition did it because they were interested in the country or some cultural element. Or, frankly, had a fetish for the people in that area—that’s an absolutely massive motivator that most people won’t openly state. One language I learned was motivated simply because I liked the food there. I like traveling in that country, eating new stuff, and looking up recipes in that language to make those dishes authentically at home. Money would be nice. But I have zero plans to get a job speaking that language.

tjpnz 4y ago

If you live in Tokyo there's serious money to be made as a bilingual software engineer in some industries.

tforcram 4y ago
How would that compare with US based pay? I'm bilingual (brushing up on my kanji with wanikani) and considering moving to Japan, but I've always heard the comp packages aren't great.
- ryan_lane 4y ago
  Software Engineering salaries at Japanese companies range between $100-200k (with a normal exchange rate, right now it's closer to $80-160k), with no equity, for senior (10+ YOE) engineers. Most companies also include a yearly bonus that's equivalent to 1 month salary. The highest paying Japanese companies tend to pay less than 1/2 of the total comp you can expect in the bay area, but may be closer to competitive to a comp package in somewhere like Atlanta or Austin.
ryan_lane 4y ago
I guess this depends on where you're coming from. Japanese salaries for software engineering tend to be quite low, and companies do not offer equity. The highest paying software engineering jobs in Japan are for foreign, english-speaking companies. If you're aiming to work for a Japanese company, and you're N1 in Japanese, and native-level english, you'll probably be worth more, but I doubt it would compare to working for Google, Facebook, or Stripe in Japan.
- tjpnz 4y ago
  I know of people who are making 30% more than FAANG in finance and medical. But it should also be said that FAANG comp in Japan isn't particularly high. For anyone curious this site provides some data: https://opensalary.jp/en/ https://opensalary.jp/en/