7 ms·

That manufacturing process is the result of bean counters determining it's a waste to ship boxed products that are 50% air overseas in a container. Ship the bro

That manufacturing process is the result of bean counters determining it's a waste to ship boxed products that are 50% air overseas in a container. Ship the broken down components instead with denser packing and have a minimum wage worker bolt it together stateside. It isn't an enlightened return to domestic production.

Scoundreller 4y ago
Or avoiding duties. Putting the parts together is what drives up the value, but if you import the constituent parts and assemble domestically, the manufacturer will spend much less in duties. And then you can export that Made in USA thing to Mexico or Canada and probably other places duty free.
stacktrust 4y ago
It's a start. Next step is automation-heavy U.S. production of specific components.
- petestream 4y ago
  It's more like the endgame. 1. Western companies moves production of components to China. 2. Chinese companies becomes good enough to produce their own products. 3. Western companies starts rebranding Chinese products. 4. Chinese companies buy western companies. 5. Chinese companies open factories in western countries. Manufacturing isn't industry in itself and the growth of industry is orders of magnitude more in China. Most people just have no idea how supply chains work or how many R&D centers are opening up elsewhere. Many western countries are no longer great industrial economies but still far from real knowledge economies. Western countries don't really have the infrastructure, housing or education necessary and increasingly not alternative ways of competing either like creativity, influence or equality. There is a documentary called "American Factory". It isn't the best but it is something.
  - stacktrust 4y ago
    > Western countries don't really have the infrastructure, housing or education necessary Why do non-Western elites send their kids to Western countries for university educations? > increasingly not alternative ways of competing either like creativity, influence or equality. Which non-Western countries are competing on creativity?
    - charles_kaw 4y ago
      >Why do non-Western elites send their kids to Western countries for university educations? Elites. We have the best education for elites. Not for everyone, which is a large part of the problem.
      - barry-cotter 4y ago
        Should be very easy for you to rattle off a list of countries doing better then. You may find the below link helpful in your quest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_...
        dmix 4y ago
        Those rankings are for 15 yr olds. The US definitely is #1 when it comes to high-end university schooling. Even among high schools and prep schools the nation-wide US average might be mediocre in public schools but when it comes to the higher-end private schools the US is still easily #1 https://www.prepreview.com/ranking/world/high-school-ranking.php https://www.prepreview.com/ranking/world/high-school-ranking...
        barry-cotter 4y ago
        Who does better than the “West” at non-elite education then? Surely non-elite must include a lot of people who never go to university. The PISA or TIMMS rankings are about as good a ranking of those as you’re going to get.
gurumeditations 4y ago
American manufacturing looks like low-wage workers making $12 an hour (a few years ago) making windshields. A real American manufacturing renaissance would be German, with high skilled trained professionals designing, building, and operating advanced machines to create complex products. Basically what the Chinese are continually getting better at. There is no hope. America can’t even agree on giving community college to poor kids, let alone training a generation of toolmakers, electronic engineers, programmers, and every other profession involved in making things out of atoms more complex than a handtool or a radiator. This country is dying and wildly unstable politically.
- stacktrust 4y ago
  TSMC is sending recent American college graduates to Taiwan for 12-18 months of internship/training, in preparation for work at the TSMC fab in Phoenix, AZ, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29676073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29676073
  - Godel_unicode 4y ago
    That’s pretty short for actual education on those kinds of processes, sounds like they have found the raw engineering talent they need at US universities. They then send them for a short stint in Taiwan to learn “the TSMC way” and then send them back.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  > There is no hope. America can’t even agree on giving community college to poor kids, Working on factory production lines does not require a bachelor's degree. Germany isn't assembling cheap power tools either. One reason is that labor costs are too high, and requiring low skill jobs have a college degree does the opposite of helping that. > let alone training a generation of toolmakers, electronic engineers, programmers, and every other profession involved in making things out of atoms more complex than a handtool or a radiator. This isn't true. USA has some of the best EEs and programmers in the world. > This country is dying and wildly unstable politically.
- 4y ago
recursv_thnkng 4y ago
There are tax implications as well when shipping fully assembled products. The big auto manufacturers have done this to avoid tariffs on vehicle imports.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  True. CKD kits are a great tax-saving trick, and you can also claim to have "a factory" in the country

Scoundreller 4y ago

Or avoiding duties. Putting the parts together is what drives up the value, but if you import the constituent parts and assemble domestically, the manufacturer will spend much less in duties. And then you can export that Made in USA thing to Mexico or Canada and probably other places duty free.

stacktrust 4y ago

It's a start. Next step is automation-heavy U.S. production of specific components.

petestream 4y ago
It's more like the endgame. 1. Western companies moves production of components to China. 2. Chinese companies becomes good enough to produce their own products. 3. Western companies starts rebranding Chinese products. 4. Chinese companies buy western companies. 5. Chinese companies open factories in western countries. Manufacturing isn't industry in itself and the growth of industry is orders of magnitude more in China. Most people just have no idea how supply chains work or how many R&D centers are opening up elsewhere. Many western countries are no longer great industrial economies but still far from real knowledge economies. Western countries don't really have the infrastructure, housing or education necessary and increasingly not alternative ways of competing either like creativity, influence or equality. There is a documentary called "American Factory". It isn't the best but it is something.
- stacktrust 4y ago
  > Western countries don't really have the infrastructure, housing or education necessary Why do non-Western elites send their kids to Western countries for university educations? > increasingly not alternative ways of competing either like creativity, influence or equality. Which non-Western countries are competing on creativity?
  - charles_kaw 4y ago
    >Why do non-Western elites send their kids to Western countries for university educations? Elites. We have the best education for elites. Not for everyone, which is a large part of the problem.
    - barry-cotter 4y ago
      Should be very easy for you to rattle off a list of countries doing better then. You may find the below link helpful in your quest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_...
      - dmix 4y ago
        Those rankings are for 15 yr olds. The US definitely is #1 when it comes to high-end university schooling. Even among high schools and prep schools the nation-wide US average might be mediocre in public schools but when it comes to the higher-end private schools the US is still easily #1 https://www.prepreview.com/ranking/world/high-school-ranking.php https://www.prepreview.com/ranking/world/high-school-ranking...
        barry-cotter 4y ago
        Who does better than the “West” at non-elite education then? Surely non-elite must include a lot of people who never go to university. The PISA or TIMMS rankings are about as good a ranking of those as you’re going to get.

gurumeditations 4y ago

American manufacturing looks like low-wage workers making $12 an hour (a few years ago) making windshields. A real American manufacturing renaissance would be German, with high skilled trained professionals designing, building, and operating advanced machines to create complex products. Basically what the Chinese are continually getting better at. There is no hope. America can’t even agree on giving community college to poor kids, let alone training a generation of toolmakers, electronic engineers, programmers, and every other profession involved in making things out of atoms more complex than a handtool or a radiator. This country is dying and wildly unstable politically.

stacktrust 4y ago
TSMC is sending recent American college graduates to Taiwan for 12-18 months of internship/training, in preparation for work at the TSMC fab in Phoenix, AZ, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29676073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29676073
- Godel_unicode 4y ago
  That’s pretty short for actual education on those kinds of processes, sounds like they have found the raw engineering talent they need at US universities. They then send them for a short stint in Taiwan to learn “the TSMC way” and then send them back.
throwawaylinux 4y ago
> There is no hope. America can’t even agree on giving community college to poor kids, Working on factory production lines does not require a bachelor's degree. Germany isn't assembling cheap power tools either. One reason is that labor costs are too high, and requiring low skill jobs have a college degree does the opposite of helping that. > let alone training a generation of toolmakers, electronic engineers, programmers, and every other profession involved in making things out of atoms more complex than a handtool or a radiator. This isn't true. USA has some of the best EEs and programmers in the world. > This country is dying and wildly unstable politically.
4y ago

recursv_thnkng 4y ago

There are tax implications as well when shipping fully assembled products. The big auto manufacturers have done this to avoid tariffs on vehicle imports.

raverbashing 4y ago
True. CKD kits are a great tax-saving trick, and you can also claim to have "a factory" in the country