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In Germany there's an independent organisation, Stiftung Warentest [−4], that anonymously buys various products in stores and tests them quite rigorously. Some

by ygra 4y ago

In Germany there's an independent organisation, Stiftung Warentest [−4], that anonymously buys various products in stores and tests them quite rigorously. Some may say perhaps a bit too well (including things like the manual, how easy it is to set up a large appliance, or whether toxic chemicals are used in parts that are handled), but overall they seem to do a very good job. Testing and scoring methodology is published as well. I trust them a lot more than Amazon or YouTube reviews or some random blog that got the product sent by its manufacturer. [−4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiftung_Warentest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiftung_Warentest – the article also has a few pointers to international, similar organisations near the bottom.

floydnoel 4y ago
Thanks for sharing, this is great information. I definitely think that independent testing organizations are important for quality so it’s always great to hear of more of them
drekipus 4y ago
We have the same in australia too, called choice magazine. https://www.choice.com.au/ https://www.choice.com.au/
- nuker 4y ago
  And even better, OzBargain.com.au crowdsourced one liner reviews, surprisingly valid :)
Gurgler 4y ago
There is a similar organization in the USA: Consumer Reports. It used to be a magazine, now I believe it's just a website. Entirely funded by subscription - and not advertisement or other sponsorship - they tackle entire categories of consumer goods in the USA, rigorously testing and ranking competing products across many metrics.
- TylerE 4y ago
  Their conclusions are somewhat suspect sometimes though… with weird qualifications for “best” that often barely effect actual functioning. Like, heavily weighting quietness over power.
  - linkdink 4y ago
    At least they're open about how they weighed their values. And they give you enough information to draw your own conclusions from your own values. Some people want to be told what's "best", and they've found a way to make everyone (minus one) happy.
  - wtallis 4y ago
    Are you referring specifically to their car reviews? Those seem to regularly attract criticism for not being more like traditional car enthusiast-oriented reviews. I think that's largely due to car enthusiasts having insufficient self-awareness about the degree to which their priorities differ from those of mainstream consumers. PC gamers and PC building enthusiasts are also frustratingly prone to this kind of thing. (I spent several years reviewing PC hardware for a living, which included constantly fielding comments from readers who seemed to be genuinely unable to understand how their could be a market for low-end components.)
    - throwaway09223 4y ago
      I remember reading their computer reviews a few decades ago and being gobsmacked at how ignorant their process and conclusions were. I assume that other articles have similar issues, and that I'm just unaware because they're not within my area of expertise.
      - thaeli 4y ago
        CR's core failing is, on the surface, their greatest strength: they refuse to have any "special" contact with any manufacturers. Unfortunately, this also means that they don't ask, or listen, when their test procedures are nonsensical.
rahen 4y ago
It seems common all across Europe, maybe the whole western world. Here for France: https://www.60millions-mag.com/tests-comparatifs https://www.60millions-mag.com/tests-comparatifs (I just laughed as I see they even review fries brands, and sex toys...)
grog454 4y ago
Do they do tear-downs and rate the engineering? That's pretty much the only way to determine how likey something is to last without using it for ten years.
- sneak 4y ago
  AvE does this on his YT channel, though only for hand tools and adjacent stuff (he did a Juicero once and it was utterly hilarious).
  - somewhat_drunk 4y ago
    Juicero teardown is one of the best youtube videos ever made.
- stevage 4y ago
  The Australia Choice magazine does pretty hefty stress tests. No tear downs though.
- mschild 4y ago
  I don't think they do tear-downs but they do stress test them extensively. Their reports also include their testing methods in detail. For washing machine testing, for example, they independently bought 3 of each model and ran each through 1840 cycles. That's equivalent to 3.5 cycles per week for 10 years. They checked how the machine held up in comparison to the beginning and if any repairs were needed.
Semaphor 4y ago
My issue with them is twofold: a) The "testing too much" part, specifically things like how well translated the manual is, for example. I don’t care. And b), it’s a blackbox. There are no real details for how they arrived at the rating of some subsection. ETM [0] is subscription funded and their tests are far more detailed, and they even show the data (e. g. power usage curves for a toaster, measured air replacement curves for a fan, etc.). [0]: https://etm-testmagazin.de/ https://etm-testmagazin.de/
- ant6n 4y ago
  Perhaps the magazine is good, but the website doesn’t leave a good impression: I search for dehumidifier, and all I get is the info about one particular model being released, an article that reads more like an ad, without any testing done.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    They recently (about a year ago) redesigned their website, and it’s a disaster. I have absolutely NO idea what they were thinking. Links aren’t working properly, and as usual for an SPA, it’s slower now. It’s even hard to actually navigate anywhere now. Anyway, in this case, they simply have not tested any dehumidifiers.
dopidopHN 4y ago
Same stuff in France : 60 million de consommateurs. They also provide help to launch class action. ( that exists differently than a US class action )
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
> I trust them a lot more than Amazon or YouTube reviews or some random blog that got the product sent by its manufacturer. Yeah same, those reviews are either bought, or made on a whim by people who aren't critical of what they buy - especially if the company or seller goad them into reviewing with giveaways or whatever. There will be good reviews, but they will be buried in the thousand+ mediocre ones.
foobiekr 4y ago
In the US, the closest example is Consumer Reports ( https://www.consumerreports.org/ https://www.consumerreports.org/ ); there actually are a lot of these orgs worldwide. It's pretty cool. They often are somewhat marginal at the edges - e.g., for computers. But otherwise they are useful for consumer products.

by ygra 4y ago

floydnoel 4y ago

Thanks for sharing, this is great information. I definitely think that independent testing organizations are important for quality so it’s always great to hear of more of them

drekipus 4y ago

We have the same in australia too, called choice magazine. https://www.choice.com.au/ https://www.choice.com.au/

nuker 4y ago
And even better, OzBargain.com.au crowdsourced one liner reviews, surprisingly valid :)

Gurgler 4y ago

There is a similar organization in the USA: Consumer Reports. It used to be a magazine, now I believe it's just a website. Entirely funded by subscription - and not advertisement or other sponsorship - they tackle entire categories of consumer goods in the USA, rigorously testing and ranking competing products across many metrics.

TylerE 4y ago
Their conclusions are somewhat suspect sometimes though… with weird qualifications for “best” that often barely effect actual functioning. Like, heavily weighting quietness over power.
- linkdink 4y ago
  At least they're open about how they weighed their values. And they give you enough information to draw your own conclusions from your own values. Some people want to be told what's "best", and they've found a way to make everyone (minus one) happy.
- wtallis 4y ago
  Are you referring specifically to their car reviews? Those seem to regularly attract criticism for not being more like traditional car enthusiast-oriented reviews. I think that's largely due to car enthusiasts having insufficient self-awareness about the degree to which their priorities differ from those of mainstream consumers. PC gamers and PC building enthusiasts are also frustratingly prone to this kind of thing. (I spent several years reviewing PC hardware for a living, which included constantly fielding comments from readers who seemed to be genuinely unable to understand how their could be a market for low-end components.)
  - throwaway09223 4y ago
    I remember reading their computer reviews a few decades ago and being gobsmacked at how ignorant their process and conclusions were. I assume that other articles have similar issues, and that I'm just unaware because they're not within my area of expertise.
    - thaeli 4y ago
      CR's core failing is, on the surface, their greatest strength: they refuse to have any "special" contact with any manufacturers. Unfortunately, this also means that they don't ask, or listen, when their test procedures are nonsensical.

rahen 4y ago

It seems common all across Europe, maybe the whole western world. Here for France: https://www.60millions-mag.com/tests-comparatifs https://www.60millions-mag.com/tests-comparatifs (I just laughed as I see they even review fries brands, and sex toys...)

grog454 4y ago

Do they do tear-downs and rate the engineering? That's pretty much the only way to determine how likey something is to last without using it for ten years.

sneak 4y ago
AvE does this on his YT channel, though only for hand tools and adjacent stuff (he did a Juicero once and it was utterly hilarious).
- somewhat_drunk 4y ago
  Juicero teardown is one of the best youtube videos ever made.
stevage 4y ago
The Australia Choice magazine does pretty hefty stress tests. No tear downs though.
mschild 4y ago
I don't think they do tear-downs but they do stress test them extensively. Their reports also include their testing methods in detail. For washing machine testing, for example, they independently bought 3 of each model and ran each through 1840 cycles. That's equivalent to 3.5 cycles per week for 10 years. They checked how the machine held up in comparison to the beginning and if any repairs were needed.

Semaphor 4y ago

My issue with them is twofold: a) The "testing too much" part, specifically things like how well translated the manual is, for example. I don’t care. And b), it’s a blackbox. There are no real details for how they arrived at the rating of some subsection. ETM [0] is subscription funded and their tests are far more detailed, and they even show the data (e. g. power usage curves for a toaster, measured air replacement curves for a fan, etc.). [0]: https://etm-testmagazin.de/ https://etm-testmagazin.de/

ant6n 4y ago
Perhaps the magazine is good, but the website doesn’t leave a good impression: I search for dehumidifier, and all I get is the info about one particular model being released, an article that reads more like an ad, without any testing done.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  They recently (about a year ago) redesigned their website, and it’s a disaster. I have absolutely NO idea what they were thinking. Links aren’t working properly, and as usual for an SPA, it’s slower now. It’s even hard to actually navigate anywhere now. Anyway, in this case, they simply have not tested any dehumidifiers.

dopidopHN 4y ago

Same stuff in France : 60 million de consommateurs. They also provide help to launch class action. ( that exists differently than a US class action )

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

> I trust them a lot more than Amazon or YouTube reviews or some random blog that got the product sent by its manufacturer. Yeah same, those reviews are either bought, or made on a whim by people who aren't critical of what they buy - especially if the company or seller goad them into reviewing with giveaways or whatever. There will be good reviews, but they will be buried in the thousand+ mediocre ones.

foobiekr 4y ago

In the US, the closest example is Consumer Reports ( https://www.consumerreports.org/ https://www.consumerreports.org/ ); there actually are a lot of these orgs worldwide. It's pretty cool. They often are somewhat marginal at the edges - e.g., for computers. But otherwise they are useful for consumer products.