11 ms·

Sounds like “hollywood” is finally fully corporate, devoid of any soul it once had. I just finished the ILM docu-series and wow what an amazing and incredible s

by dcow 4y ago

Sounds like “hollywood” is finally fully corporate, devoid of any soul it once had. I just finished the ILM docu-series and wow what an amazing and incredible story. It’s sad that, for the industry, it’s all culminated in abusive studios, disconnected directors and fuck it someone else will fix my mess mentality. And the disrespect for VFX workers, my god, they should come join an ops team they’d get more respect. I guess it’s kinda to be expected when you’re just perpetually milking cash cow IP to death (hardly the innovation it once was). And since when do lasers arc in space?? I don’t watch super hero movies on principle at this point. It’s the least I can do.

leeoniya 4y ago
> And since when do lasers arc in space?? Webb would like a word...
- dcow 4y ago
  Can you explain? I’m genuinely curious what phenomenon you’re referring to.
  - rz2k 4y ago
    I think they're alluding to phenomena this[1], a description of gravitational lensing from the Webb Space Telescope team. [1] https://webbtelescope.org/contents/media/images/2019/20/4377-Image?Tag=Gravitational%20Lensing https://webbtelescope.org/contents/media/images/2019/20/4377...
    - dcow 4y ago
      Okay yes, we can see distant light from slightly behind stars because it follows curved spacetime. The energy projectiles in question in Star Wars VIII arc in a parabolic trajectory through flat spacetime over much shorter distances.
ozzythecat 4y ago
> it’s all culminated in abusive studios, disconnected directors and fuck it someone else will fix my mess mentality. > And the disrespect for VFX workers, my god, they should come join an ops team they’d get more respect. > I guess it’s kinda to be expected when you’re just perpetually milking cash cow IP to death (hardly the innovation it once was) I can’t help but smile reading this. Replace “studios” with “organization at big tech company”. Replace “vfx workers” with “software development engineers” Replace “cash cow IP” with “legacy systems that still bring in $$$”, although yeah there’s IP there too from a while ago. Sorry, I don’t mean to take this completely on a tangent, but I can’t help but think there are similarities here.
- skrebbel 4y ago
  I'll never understand this vibe. You're a programmer, in most places that's among the best paying jobs available. How are you being there exploited the same way as VFX artists are?
  - bsenftner 4y ago
    Having worked on both sides, being a former VFX programmer and artist makes tech companies afraid of your expense plus they incorrectly think your used to pampered treatment. In tech companies, they see VFX films and do not realize they are seeing the collaborative work of thousands of digital workers - so they expect the programming output of thousands of people. It is a no win situation, because to get them to understand you have to convince them they believe in fantasy.
  - julik 4y ago
    If you are in an agency which basically sells labour (body shop) and if the agency is doing fixed bid projects ("you build us XYZ mobile app which does ABC by MNP for XXX") you will be in a comparable situation. There is a difference however: * Devs are harder to find and currently they are likely to flat-out refuse to work on location * In dev, "time+materials" (bill by the hour) is much more prevalent. One of the reasons VFX work is so miserable is that the producers will try to place a project in the cheapest locality and with a fixed bid, implying an unlimited amount of change requests as long as the deadline is not passed. One of the best medicines against the indecision and non-commitment from clients is making them pay for time spent (both waiting while they meddle and working when the umpteenth change requests comes about). This works very well - it does imply you have to fire clients who do not want to work like this. VFX studios are in a bind because if you want to work "big ticket stuff" (Marvel etc.) they will negotiate hard on contracts, they will want insane deadlines, and they will want fixed bid. And they will want you to be in a locality which provides tax breaks.
hot_gril 4y ago
I've been trying to avoid sequels, reboots, and other Millennial nostalgia-based movies going to a mainstream theater, and I found it nearly impossible. Accidentally watched Uncharted not realizing it was based on... a video game of all things. It wasn't good. Nothing else was good either the past 2 years. I'm not partial to old movies, but there are some gems, and they show how much you can do without modern VFX. I don't know what modern live-action movies were even improved by fancy effects besides The Matrix, which was awesome. Even when the scene is about action, it's cooler when it's realistic, like the Blues Brothers chase where they're actually driving 118 MPH and 104 real cars are getting wrecked.
- mariusmg 4y ago
  >it was based on... a video game of all things And the Uncharted games are great. They have good characterization, good writing and funny comedy bits. None of these were present in the movie.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- croes 4y ago
  The Matrix was great because the VFX supported the practical FX. In Matrix reloaded they replaced them. The result was inferior.
- crooked-v 4y ago
  If you want to avoid reboots in theaters, you would have had to stop watching films in the 1930s.
  - megablast 4y ago
    Are you serious?? Lots of awesome new films come out every year.
  - hot_gril 4y ago
    I'm not sure what you mean. My example was a non-reboot 1999 movie.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Hard_Space 4y ago
I also watched that doc a week ago, and loved that pioneering spirit from Dykstra and the other heroes of my youth. In the next 5-10 years, I think that the growth of AI in VFX will bring some of that back. In fact, that's happening right now, across the world, as every VFX house seems to have some sort of AI skunkworks in place; techniques that are not ready for prime-time, as many applications of CGI weren't throughout the eighties, but who time is yet to come.
goto11 4y ago
> Sounds like “hollywood” is finally fully corporate, devoid of any soul it once had. Perhaps, but then again people have been saying that about Hollywood since at least the 1930's. Hollywood has always been an industry aimed at making money thorough entertaining people. Sometimes this has resulted in great art being created, and Hollywood is not averse to art as long as it makes money.

by dcow 4y ago

leeoniya 4y ago

> And since when do lasers arc in space?? Webb would like a word...

dcow 4y ago
Can you explain? I’m genuinely curious what phenomenon you’re referring to.
- rz2k 4y ago
  I think they're alluding to phenomena this[1], a description of gravitational lensing from the Webb Space Telescope team. [1] https://webbtelescope.org/contents/media/images/2019/20/4377-Image?Tag=Gravitational%20Lensing https://webbtelescope.org/contents/media/images/2019/20/4377...
  - dcow 4y ago
    Okay yes, we can see distant light from slightly behind stars because it follows curved spacetime. The energy projectiles in question in Star Wars VIII arc in a parabolic trajectory through flat spacetime over much shorter distances.

ozzythecat 4y ago

> it’s all culminated in abusive studios, disconnected directors and fuck it someone else will fix my mess mentality. > And the disrespect for VFX workers, my god, they should come join an ops team they’d get more respect. > I guess it’s kinda to be expected when you’re just perpetually milking cash cow IP to death (hardly the innovation it once was) I can’t help but smile reading this. Replace “studios” with “organization at big tech company”. Replace “vfx workers” with “software development engineers” Replace “cash cow IP” with “legacy systems that still bring in $$$”, although yeah there’s IP there too from a while ago. Sorry, I don’t mean to take this completely on a tangent, but I can’t help but think there are similarities here.

skrebbel 4y ago
I'll never understand this vibe. You're a programmer, in most places that's among the best paying jobs available. How are you being there exploited the same way as VFX artists are?
- bsenftner 4y ago
  Having worked on both sides, being a former VFX programmer and artist makes tech companies afraid of your expense plus they incorrectly think your used to pampered treatment. In tech companies, they see VFX films and do not realize they are seeing the collaborative work of thousands of digital workers - so they expect the programming output of thousands of people. It is a no win situation, because to get them to understand you have to convince them they believe in fantasy.
- julik 4y ago
  If you are in an agency which basically sells labour (body shop) and if the agency is doing fixed bid projects ("you build us XYZ mobile app which does ABC by MNP for XXX") you will be in a comparable situation. There is a difference however: * Devs are harder to find and currently they are likely to flat-out refuse to work on location * In dev, "time+materials" (bill by the hour) is much more prevalent. One of the reasons VFX work is so miserable is that the producers will try to place a project in the cheapest locality and with a fixed bid, implying an unlimited amount of change requests as long as the deadline is not passed. One of the best medicines against the indecision and non-commitment from clients is making them pay for time spent (both waiting while they meddle and working when the umpteenth change requests comes about). This works very well - it does imply you have to fire clients who do not want to work like this. VFX studios are in a bind because if you want to work "big ticket stuff" (Marvel etc.) they will negotiate hard on contracts, they will want insane deadlines, and they will want fixed bid. And they will want you to be in a locality which provides tax breaks.

hot_gril 4y ago

I've been trying to avoid sequels, reboots, and other Millennial nostalgia-based movies going to a mainstream theater, and I found it nearly impossible. Accidentally watched Uncharted not realizing it was based on... a video game of all things. It wasn't good. Nothing else was good either the past 2 years. I'm not partial to old movies, but there are some gems, and they show how much you can do without modern VFX. I don't know what modern live-action movies were even improved by fancy effects besides The Matrix, which was awesome. Even when the scene is about action, it's cooler when it's realistic, like the Blues Brothers chase where they're actually driving 118 MPH and 104 real cars are getting wrecked.

mariusmg 4y ago
>it was based on... a video game of all things And the Uncharted games are great. They have good characterization, good writing and funny comedy bits. None of these were present in the movie.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
croes 4y ago
The Matrix was great because the VFX supported the practical FX. In Matrix reloaded they replaced them. The result was inferior.
crooked-v 4y ago
If you want to avoid reboots in theaters, you would have had to stop watching films in the 1930s.
- megablast 4y ago
  Are you serious?? Lots of awesome new films come out every year.
- hot_gril 4y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean. My example was a non-reboot 1999 movie.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Hard_Space 4y ago

I also watched that doc a week ago, and loved that pioneering spirit from Dykstra and the other heroes of my youth. In the next 5-10 years, I think that the growth of AI in VFX will bring some of that back. In fact, that's happening right now, across the world, as every VFX house seems to have some sort of AI skunkworks in place; techniques that are not ready for prime-time, as many applications of CGI weren't throughout the eighties, but who time is yet to come.

goto11 4y ago

> Sounds like “hollywood” is finally fully corporate, devoid of any soul it once had. Perhaps, but then again people have been saying that about Hollywood since at least the 1930's. Hollywood has always been an industry aimed at making money thorough entertaining people. Sometimes this has resulted in great art being created, and Hollywood is not averse to art as long as it makes money.