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> If it were true that somehow a crypto currency could hold its own in a collapsing economy I am not sure why you are speaking in hypotheticals. The economy o

by stale2002 4y ago

> If it were true that somehow a crypto currency could hold its own in a collapsing economy I am not sure why you are speaking in hypotheticals. The economy of lebanon did collapse. And if you were holding bitcoin, you'd be much better off than holding that local currency. Economies collapse all the time, around the world. And because the coin is a global market, it is insolated from local collapse. > it really doesn't matter what sort of currency you use But it did matter! Just look at the current situation, in Lebanon right now. If you were holding the local currency, you'd be screwed. If you were holding a global currency, you'd be much better off.

wizofaus 4y ago
Assuming you could buy basics from an international market and somehow get them delivered to you at a reasonable price using said global currency, true. But how realistic is that?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
ip26 4y ago
Would you be? If the economy doesn't produce enough food, what food there is just goes up in price. You can say "buy from the global market" but that requires having money, a tall order for a country with a weak economy.
- stale2002 4y ago
  > Would you be? Think about the existing right now situation. Imagine if someone, in lebanon, had 50k USD equivalent, in a lebanon bank. Now, imagine the same person, who had 50k equivalent value, in not the lebanon bank. Who's better off? Clearly the person who had the global currency. > You can say "buy from the global market" but that requires having money Oh, you mean like the money that now wasn't confiscated or inflated away to being worthless? That money? Yes, that is what you would use the money for. The money that now wasn't taken away, or was not made worthless, is what you would use to buy things. Situation A: you have no money. Or you have 10 thousand percent inflated money. Situation B: you do have money, in a global currency. And yes that money can be used to buys things from the international market. Situation B is better. Much better.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    Only if there's actually a mechanism in place to get such things to your door. Various regulations and logistical impediments are likely to mean many basics simply cannot be shipped from overseas and delivered to you just because you were holding currency to buy it with. But I suppose at least you can keep your Netflix subscription (assuming the infrastructure to keep high speed internet connectivity is still being maintained adequately and you can afford to pay for that).
    - imtringued 4y ago
      I always wonder if these collapses happen all around the world, why does nobody have the decency to simply accept Bitcoin in their local farm as payment? Of course there are many reasons, probably the most prominent being that you need to download a 400GB blockchain on your device to actually be secure. No wonder all these Bitcoin people want their technology to have as few transactions as possible, because popularity will ruin it's decentralized nature. This means you will need a custodial solution like lightning which merely uses game theory to create rewards and incentives for following the rules in a decentralized way but ultimately it is still custodial and knowing and trusting the counterparty is still superior. This gets to the crux of the problem. Due to the custodial nature of scaling Bitcoin transactions, you will have a centralised organization that can be shut down by the government. The local Bitcoin bank or PayPal equivalent will have the exact same problem as any other bank. If you argue that this entity can exist outside of the borders of the collapsing country, so do USD banks. Despite its flaws even the USD is a better medium of exchange than Bitcoin.
      - game-of-throws 4y ago
        > why does nobody have the decency to simply accept Bitcoin in their local farm as payment Farmers do not accept payment in any currency on their farm. They sell futures on the commodity market before the growing season begins to lock in a price and hedge against volatility. > you need to download a 400GB blockchain on your device You can use light wallets such as Electrum without trusting a third party, and with no loss of security (though it potentially sacrifices privacy). Even if that weren't true, a 512GB drive costs $10 these days. That shouldn't be a barrier for anyone. > This means you will need a custodial solution like lightning Lightning is not custodial. You do not need to trust any counterparty. etc. This entire comment is very misinformed.
Spooky23 4y ago
Actually, you’d be way better off with a stack of crisp $100 US bills or silver coinage. Good luck finding a way to convert your bitcoin into some sort of locally fungible currency while that economy is in a state of collapse and the crypto brokers are on a similar path.

wizofaus 4y ago

Assuming you could buy basics from an international market and somehow get them delivered to you at a reasonable price using said global currency, true. But how realistic is that?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

ip26 4y ago

Would you be? If the economy doesn't produce enough food, what food there is just goes up in price. You can say "buy from the global market" but that requires having money, a tall order for a country with a weak economy.

stale2002 4y ago
> Would you be? Think about the existing right now situation. Imagine if someone, in lebanon, had 50k USD equivalent, in a lebanon bank. Now, imagine the same person, who had 50k equivalent value, in not the lebanon bank. Who's better off? Clearly the person who had the global currency. > You can say "buy from the global market" but that requires having money Oh, you mean like the money that now wasn't confiscated or inflated away to being worthless? That money? Yes, that is what you would use the money for. The money that now wasn't taken away, or was not made worthless, is what you would use to buy things. Situation A: you have no money. Or you have 10 thousand percent inflated money. Situation B: you do have money, in a global currency. And yes that money can be used to buys things from the international market. Situation B is better. Much better.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Only if there's actually a mechanism in place to get such things to your door. Various regulations and logistical impediments are likely to mean many basics simply cannot be shipped from overseas and delivered to you just because you were holding currency to buy it with. But I suppose at least you can keep your Netflix subscription (assuming the infrastructure to keep high speed internet connectivity is still being maintained adequately and you can afford to pay for that).
  - imtringued 4y ago
    I always wonder if these collapses happen all around the world, why does nobody have the decency to simply accept Bitcoin in their local farm as payment? Of course there are many reasons, probably the most prominent being that you need to download a 400GB blockchain on your device to actually be secure. No wonder all these Bitcoin people want their technology to have as few transactions as possible, because popularity will ruin it's decentralized nature. This means you will need a custodial solution like lightning which merely uses game theory to create rewards and incentives for following the rules in a decentralized way but ultimately it is still custodial and knowing and trusting the counterparty is still superior. This gets to the crux of the problem. Due to the custodial nature of scaling Bitcoin transactions, you will have a centralised organization that can be shut down by the government. The local Bitcoin bank or PayPal equivalent will have the exact same problem as any other bank. If you argue that this entity can exist outside of the borders of the collapsing country, so do USD banks. Despite its flaws even the USD is a better medium of exchange than Bitcoin.
    - game-of-throws 4y ago
      > why does nobody have the decency to simply accept Bitcoin in their local farm as payment Farmers do not accept payment in any currency on their farm. They sell futures on the commodity market before the growing season begins to lock in a price and hedge against volatility. > you need to download a 400GB blockchain on your device You can use light wallets such as Electrum without trusting a third party, and with no loss of security (though it potentially sacrifices privacy). Even if that weren't true, a 512GB drive costs $10 these days. That shouldn't be a barrier for anyone. > This means you will need a custodial solution like lightning Lightning is not custodial. You do not need to trust any counterparty. etc. This entire comment is very misinformed.

Spooky23 4y ago

Actually, you’d be way better off with a stack of crisp $100 US bills or silver coinage. Good luck finding a way to convert your bitcoin into some sort of locally fungible currency while that economy is in a state of collapse and the crypto brokers are on a similar path.