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How would self-custody of BTC allowed this man to pay for his father's medical bills? As far as I'm aware the hospital did not accept bitcoin payments. There h

How would self-custody of BTC allowed this man to pay for his father's medical bills? As far as I'm aware the hospital did not accept bitcoin payments. There have also been several instances in time where BTC has lost 80% of its value (and many more instances of 50%+), so it doesn't protect against the downside risk of needing money in an emergency.

rubatuga 4y ago
They would certainly accept USD
- skybrian 4y ago
  Yes, Lebanese people with foreign bank accounts were probably better off. But not all USD-denominated accounts are necessarily safe (it depends on the country), and sometimes it might be hard to open an account.
gonehome 4y ago
I’m not advocating for putting 100% of your money into BTC, but a chunk would help (especially in countries with less stable currencies). The hospital might not take it directly, but he’d still retain control of it and be able to find a way to exchange it for something the hospital does take.
- oarabbus_ 4y ago
  I do think allocating some percentage into BTC makes sense depending on an individual's risk tolerance. But only as a speculative investment and absolutely not for emergency funds, due to the volatility.
  - gruez 4y ago
    > But only as a speculative investment and absolutely not for emergency funds, due to the volatility. In a country with a sound financial system, 6 months of expenses in a savings account might suffice. However in a country without a sound financial system you'd want 6 months of expenses in a savings account to protect against your own job loss, and maybe 6 months of expenses in bitcoin/offshore account to protect against a local financial system collapse.
  - gonehome 4y ago
    It's also a hedge against local currency failure and can be useful in an emergency situation as shown here. Hoarding USD could also work, but it may be harder to get and it's definitely harder to protect/move in large amounts.
    - oarabbus_ 4y ago
      >can be useful in an emergency situation as shown here. Clearly holding Lebanese currency in a bank may not be useful for holding emergency funds. But I do not believe that it's been shown that at point in time an asset which can drop 50% in value over two months, which is the type of acute timeline in which an emergency can occur, and requires transacting into LBP anyways in this scenario, is useful for holding emergency funds either.
- ma2rten 4y ago
  It might help in this situation, but it's not the best possible solution. Storing it in USD or gold is more stable. You could keep those in a vault or in a foreign bank account. Bitcoin is very volatile and, as you said, still requires exchange, which might also be very tricky in a situation like this.
canadaduane 4y ago
It solves the initial problem of "how do I get my money out of the bank" because you ARE the bank (sort of). BTC doesn't directly solve the problem of liquidity, exchange to other currencies, etc. however.
- Sebb767 4y ago
  > It solves the initial problem of "how do I get my money out of the bank" because you ARE the bank (sort of). Unless you use an exchange, which a lot of people do. You don't have to, of course, but you could also keep your savings in cash - which would not only avoid the above problem, but also rid you of the need to exchange it.
primax 4y ago
It would help because: A: his money would be on the blockchain where it's unable to be seized by the bank. B: as Bitcoin is a world currency it's unlikely would face inflation to the level that the local currency has C: if he was unable to change Bitcoin into the local currency to pay for the medical procedures, he could transact with someone like a money changer instead This scenario is kind of the whole reason the Bitcoin exists
- oarabbus_ 4y ago
  Once he finds a local Lebanese money changer willing to exchange LBP for bitcoin (for how large of a fee?) and sends the BTC, he now finds himself in the exact same situation as the bank - having to trust a centralized entity. And inflation is also not so much a concern if the value of the asset itself drops 50% in two months.
  - junofan 4y ago
    What centralized entity? Do you mean counterparty?
    - oarabbus_ 4y ago
      No, I mean the local centralized entity that would need to have sufficient LBP available for exchange for BTC to solve this man's problem. He needs to pay a hospital, not trade crypto with an anonymous counterparty.
      - myownpetard 4y ago
        That's still just a counterparty. It would be centralized if there were a third actor that mediated all transactions between two parties, e.g. a FOREX exchange or bank that processed the transaction. That's like saying TOR is centralized because you interact with a "centralized" peer.
        oarabbus_ 4y ago
notch656a 4y ago
Lebanon is not a country lacking people who keep savings in cash, and some of those people likely need to send it out of the country without suffering their broken banking system. Honestly I'd be surprised if it _was_ hard to trade crypto for cash in Lebanon.
siwatanejo 4y ago
> How would self-custody of BTC allowed this man to pay for his father's medical bills? As far as I'm aware the hospital did not accept bitcoin payments. Sell your BTC for cash, in person. > There have also been several instances in time where BTC has lost 80% of its value (and many more instances of 50%+) Better than the 90% inflation (or withdrawal "correction") in Lebanon.
- analog31 4y ago
  Nobody can get cash to sell you.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > Sell your BTC for cash, in person. This is totally absurd - you need to buy real goods, they are priced in USD, there is shortage of USD in the country. noone will trade with you your only chance is to pay bitcoin to someone abroad who can exvhange them for USD there and ship goods to you that you can trade locally
  - siwatanejo 4y ago
    > noone will trade with you There are P2P non custodial exchanges where you can sell your BTC in person (e.g. LocalCryptos), in case you need to stop hodling for some sudden expense, like the medical bills for your dad.
    - oarabbus_ 4y ago
      Did you try to search Lebanon on localcryptos or localbitcoins? The former has no listings which transact in LBP, only one which requires Western Union (USD). And the latter has no listings at all in Lebanon.
      - siwatanejo 4y ago
        Oh well that's interesting. I myself have never had this problem in the countries I live.
ThePowerOfDirge 4y ago
Seems like BITCOIN has crashed to very low values recently as well: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/harrypotterobamasonic10inu https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/harrypotterobamasonic10...

rubatuga 4y ago

They would certainly accept USD

skybrian 4y ago
Yes, Lebanese people with foreign bank accounts were probably better off. But not all USD-denominated accounts are necessarily safe (it depends on the country), and sometimes it might be hard to open an account.

gonehome 4y ago

I’m not advocating for putting 100% of your money into BTC, but a chunk would help (especially in countries with less stable currencies). The hospital might not take it directly, but he’d still retain control of it and be able to find a way to exchange it for something the hospital does take.

oarabbus_ 4y ago
I do think allocating some percentage into BTC makes sense depending on an individual's risk tolerance. But only as a speculative investment and absolutely not for emergency funds, due to the volatility.
- gruez 4y ago
  > But only as a speculative investment and absolutely not for emergency funds, due to the volatility. In a country with a sound financial system, 6 months of expenses in a savings account might suffice. However in a country without a sound financial system you'd want 6 months of expenses in a savings account to protect against your own job loss, and maybe 6 months of expenses in bitcoin/offshore account to protect against a local financial system collapse.
- gonehome 4y ago
  It's also a hedge against local currency failure and can be useful in an emergency situation as shown here. Hoarding USD could also work, but it may be harder to get and it's definitely harder to protect/move in large amounts.
  - oarabbus_ 4y ago
    >can be useful in an emergency situation as shown here. Clearly holding Lebanese currency in a bank may not be useful for holding emergency funds. But I do not believe that it's been shown that at point in time an asset which can drop 50% in value over two months, which is the type of acute timeline in which an emergency can occur, and requires transacting into LBP anyways in this scenario, is useful for holding emergency funds either.
ma2rten 4y ago
It might help in this situation, but it's not the best possible solution. Storing it in USD or gold is more stable. You could keep those in a vault or in a foreign bank account. Bitcoin is very volatile and, as you said, still requires exchange, which might also be very tricky in a situation like this.

canadaduane 4y ago

It solves the initial problem of "how do I get my money out of the bank" because you ARE the bank (sort of). BTC doesn't directly solve the problem of liquidity, exchange to other currencies, etc. however.

Sebb767 4y ago
> It solves the initial problem of "how do I get my money out of the bank" because you ARE the bank (sort of). Unless you use an exchange, which a lot of people do. You don't have to, of course, but you could also keep your savings in cash - which would not only avoid the above problem, but also rid you of the need to exchange it.

primax 4y ago

It would help because: A: his money would be on the blockchain where it's unable to be seized by the bank. B: as Bitcoin is a world currency it's unlikely would face inflation to the level that the local currency has C: if he was unable to change Bitcoin into the local currency to pay for the medical procedures, he could transact with someone like a money changer instead This scenario is kind of the whole reason the Bitcoin exists

oarabbus_ 4y ago
Once he finds a local Lebanese money changer willing to exchange LBP for bitcoin (for how large of a fee?) and sends the BTC, he now finds himself in the exact same situation as the bank - having to trust a centralized entity. And inflation is also not so much a concern if the value of the asset itself drops 50% in two months.
- junofan 4y ago
  What centralized entity? Do you mean counterparty?
  - oarabbus_ 4y ago
    No, I mean the local centralized entity that would need to have sufficient LBP available for exchange for BTC to solve this man's problem. He needs to pay a hospital, not trade crypto with an anonymous counterparty.
    - myownpetard 4y ago
      That's still just a counterparty. It would be centralized if there were a third actor that mediated all transactions between two parties, e.g. a FOREX exchange or bank that processed the transaction. That's like saying TOR is centralized because you interact with a "centralized" peer.
      - oarabbus_ 4y ago

notch656a 4y ago

Lebanon is not a country lacking people who keep savings in cash, and some of those people likely need to send it out of the country without suffering their broken banking system. Honestly I'd be surprised if it _was_ hard to trade crypto for cash in Lebanon.

siwatanejo 4y ago

> How would self-custody of BTC allowed this man to pay for his father's medical bills? As far as I'm aware the hospital did not accept bitcoin payments. Sell your BTC for cash, in person. > There have also been several instances in time where BTC has lost 80% of its value (and many more instances of 50%+) Better than the 90% inflation (or withdrawal "correction") in Lebanon.

analog31 4y ago
Nobody can get cash to sell you.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> Sell your BTC for cash, in person. This is totally absurd - you need to buy real goods, they are priced in USD, there is shortage of USD in the country. noone will trade with you your only chance is to pay bitcoin to someone abroad who can exvhange them for USD there and ship goods to you that you can trade locally
- siwatanejo 4y ago
  > noone will trade with you There are P2P non custodial exchanges where you can sell your BTC in person (e.g. LocalCryptos), in case you need to stop hodling for some sudden expense, like the medical bills for your dad.
  - oarabbus_ 4y ago
    Did you try to search Lebanon on localcryptos or localbitcoins? The former has no listings which transact in LBP, only one which requires Western Union (USD). And the latter has no listings at all in Lebanon.
    - siwatanejo 4y ago
      Oh well that's interesting. I myself have never had this problem in the countries I live.

ThePowerOfDirge 4y ago

Seems like BITCOIN has crashed to very low values recently as well: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/harrypotterobamasonic10inu https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/harrypotterobamasonic10...