6 ms·

So I take it Lebanon doesnt operate on the strict islamic system of banking, that I thought was designed to prevent financial collapses like these? Or am I just

by tifik 4y ago

So I take it Lebanon doesnt operate on the strict islamic system of banking, that I thought was designed to prevent financial collapses like these? Or am I just wrong in assuming that said system is meant to be more robust?

elashri 4y ago
No, you are basically wrong to assume that Lebanon crisis has anything to do with islamic banking. Lebanon is not even a Muslim majority country. The problems arises from just how bad their reliant on financial sector for decades and how much unsustainable debt they acquired.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  > Lebanon is not even a Muslim majority country <citation needed>
  - sgt 4y ago
    I think it is majority muslim, but since there are many secular muslims and muslims who consume alcohol etc, then I guess practically speaking you could consider it that way.
- isr 4y ago
  > Lebanon is not even a Muslim majority country Excuse me? Perhaps you'd like to go to Lebanon and explain that to them. They could do with a good laugh in such destitute times
  - elashri 4y ago
    You don't have to go to them. they know that if you include Lebanons who mainly live outside Lebanon they will be majority Christians. The CIA 2020 estimation that Wikipedia and state website report doesn't include them.
    - dahdum 4y ago
      Why would you count Christian emigrants as part of Lebanon’s population? They lose their citizenship and their descendants are not entitled to it either.
      - elashri 4y ago
        No they do not losw their citizenship and it transferred if the father of a new born carries it out. [1] And I include that because in this context they are counted and allowed right to vote ( many do). They are even the biggest source od foreign currency for Lebanon. The system in Lebanon is unique (you vote according to your religion and the power is splitted according to that) but also it is not considered Muslim majority country because of this numerical fact. Lebanon never had any islamic financial system and their system gives the power of the Lebanon central bank to Christians as part of the split [2]. Lebanon usually follow france and their elite class is very attached to foreign power. sunni supported and attached to the golf, Christians to France and shia mostly to iran influence. (1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_nationality_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_nationality_law (2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banque_du_Liban https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banque_du_Liban
        dahdum 4y ago
        Thank you for the follow up, looks I had outdated (pre-2015) info. Given the voting and financial support I'd agree it's questionable whether it should be considered Muslim majority. It certainly has a fascinating history.
    - isr 4y ago
      Yes, you should. Then you wouldn't be propagating such nonsense. Not only are Muslims officially (by gov stats) in the majority, it is also widely known and commonly accepted that if a modern, true census was to be done today, it would show that the Shia's at least were hugely undercounted. Because of the schizophrenic nature of Lebanon's power structure, the other factions have refused to allow such a counting to take place. No-one who has spent more than 5 minutes in Lebanon, and how has some basic affinity for the truth, would deny that. But you carry on googling stuff and quoting CIA reports.
- jokethrowaway 4y ago
  > The problems arises from just how bad their reliant on financial sector for decades and how much unsustainable debt they acquired. This describes most modern countries
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    Crash of EU or USA economy will be glorious. And I believe it will happen. We have been pushing such event forward, but really things are very weird.
    - dahdum 4y ago
      > Crash of EU or USA economy will be glorious. Outside of disaster porn enthusiasts, glorious for who? If EU, USA, or China falter the whole world will suffer. With the worst of it falling, as always, on the poorest. The wealthiest (countries and people) tend to gain ground in a global crisis.
huevosabio 4y ago
Only about 60% of Lebanon is Muslim. Roughly, it's like 30% Shia, 30% Sunni, 30% Christian, and 10% Druze. Their laws are made such that they can accommodate all the different religions and lifestyles. Their banking system is similar to Switzerland's, at least that's what it used to be. Now it's just a fully burnt down dumpster.
gautamdivgi 4y ago
I think Lebanon and especially Beirut are pretty liberal. There hasn’t been an “Islamic rule” in Lebanon. I could be wrong on this but even the Hezbollah doesn’t have much of a social agenda - probably not yet. Western media likes to classify along a bell curve (radical Islamic, moderate, liberal, etc). That classification is mostly wrong though. As an example Iran is more liberal than Saudi Arabia in its treatment of women. It’s not the west, but women have been in government, can hold jobs, drive etc. However, Iran is generally radical but the Saudis are moderates. So go figure
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  here is something that helps the iranian govt is radical islamic, but its citizens are largely moderate and pro US the saudi govt is moderate, but its citizens are radical islamic and want death to the US
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bell-cot 4y ago
We're talking about modern Lebanon. No matter how foolproof you make a system on paper - if most of the actors involved are corrupt and passably clever, it can only appear to function correctly for a while. Until they've stolen so much of the assets that the facade collapses.

by tifik 4y ago

elashri 4y ago

No, you are basically wrong to assume that Lebanon crisis has anything to do with islamic banking. Lebanon is not even a Muslim majority country. The problems arises from just how bad their reliant on financial sector for decades and how much unsustainable debt they acquired.

selimthegrim 4y ago
> Lebanon is not even a Muslim majority country <citation needed>
- sgt 4y ago
  I think it is majority muslim, but since there are many secular muslims and muslims who consume alcohol etc, then I guess practically speaking you could consider it that way.
isr 4y ago
> Lebanon is not even a Muslim majority country Excuse me? Perhaps you'd like to go to Lebanon and explain that to them. They could do with a good laugh in such destitute times
- elashri 4y ago
  You don't have to go to them. they know that if you include Lebanons who mainly live outside Lebanon they will be majority Christians. The CIA 2020 estimation that Wikipedia and state website report doesn't include them.
  - dahdum 4y ago
    Why would you count Christian emigrants as part of Lebanon’s population? They lose their citizenship and their descendants are not entitled to it either.
    - elashri 4y ago
      No they do not losw their citizenship and it transferred if the father of a new born carries it out. [1] And I include that because in this context they are counted and allowed right to vote ( many do). They are even the biggest source od foreign currency for Lebanon. The system in Lebanon is unique (you vote according to your religion and the power is splitted according to that) but also it is not considered Muslim majority country because of this numerical fact. Lebanon never had any islamic financial system and their system gives the power of the Lebanon central bank to Christians as part of the split [2]. Lebanon usually follow france and their elite class is very attached to foreign power. sunni supported and attached to the golf, Christians to France and shia mostly to iran influence. (1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_nationality_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_nationality_law (2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banque_du_Liban https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banque_du_Liban
      - dahdum 4y ago
        Thank you for the follow up, looks I had outdated (pre-2015) info. Given the voting and financial support I'd agree it's questionable whether it should be considered Muslim majority. It certainly has a fascinating history.
  - isr 4y ago
    Yes, you should. Then you wouldn't be propagating such nonsense. Not only are Muslims officially (by gov stats) in the majority, it is also widely known and commonly accepted that if a modern, true census was to be done today, it would show that the Shia's at least were hugely undercounted. Because of the schizophrenic nature of Lebanon's power structure, the other factions have refused to allow such a counting to take place. No-one who has spent more than 5 minutes in Lebanon, and how has some basic affinity for the truth, would deny that. But you carry on googling stuff and quoting CIA reports.
jokethrowaway 4y ago
> The problems arises from just how bad their reliant on financial sector for decades and how much unsustainable debt they acquired. This describes most modern countries
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Crash of EU or USA economy will be glorious. And I believe it will happen. We have been pushing such event forward, but really things are very weird.
  - dahdum 4y ago
    > Crash of EU or USA economy will be glorious. Outside of disaster porn enthusiasts, glorious for who? If EU, USA, or China falter the whole world will suffer. With the worst of it falling, as always, on the poorest. The wealthiest (countries and people) tend to gain ground in a global crisis.

huevosabio 4y ago

Only about 60% of Lebanon is Muslim. Roughly, it's like 30% Shia, 30% Sunni, 30% Christian, and 10% Druze. Their laws are made such that they can accommodate all the different religions and lifestyles. Their banking system is similar to Switzerland's, at least that's what it used to be. Now it's just a fully burnt down dumpster.

gautamdivgi 4y ago

I think Lebanon and especially Beirut are pretty liberal. There hasn’t been an “Islamic rule” in Lebanon. I could be wrong on this but even the Hezbollah doesn’t have much of a social agenda - probably not yet. Western media likes to classify along a bell curve (radical Islamic, moderate, liberal, etc). That classification is mostly wrong though. As an example Iran is more liberal than Saudi Arabia in its treatment of women. It’s not the west, but women have been in government, can hold jobs, drive etc. However, Iran is generally radical but the Saudis are moderates. So go figure

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
here is something that helps the iranian govt is radical islamic, but its citizens are largely moderate and pro US the saudi govt is moderate, but its citizens are radical islamic and want death to the US

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bell-cot 4y ago

We're talking about modern Lebanon. No matter how foolproof you make a system on paper - if most of the actors involved are corrupt and passably clever, it can only appear to function correctly for a while. Until they've stolen so much of the assets that the facade collapses.