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I doubt you could buy a house anonymously anywhere in the west. Typically all large transactions get auto reported to the financial intelligence unit, with the

I doubt you could buy a house anonymously anywhere in the west. Typically all large transactions get auto reported to the financial intelligence unit, with the tax man getting access to the data set as well. If paid via crypto they'd find out when the recipient cashes out, forcing him/her to do source of funds.

akimball 4y ago
This is accomplished every day in every country in the western hemisphere by means of shell companies.
- PeterisP 4y ago
  Current EU AML laws are full of requirements for explicit registration of the true beneficiaries for all these companies (including chains of companies); anonymous ownership of companies is becoming illegal in the last couple years.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Looks like the Dutch are just now catching up on that other structure to hide assets: trusts: https://www.loyensloeff.com/insights/news--events/news/bill-for-the-dutch-implementation-of-the-trust-register-approved-by-senate-/ https://www.loyensloeff.com/insights/news--events/news/bill-...
chimeracoder 4y ago
> I doubt you could buy a house anonymously anywhere in the west. In New York, properties are commonly held by LLCs. Transferring ownership of the LLC can be done without any public or auditable record of the transaction.
sidewndr46 4y ago
At least in the US, house purchases are by default anonymous. The only reason I know the sellers of my house is because they put in their trust name their full legal names. Last time I sold a house, the only reason I met with the buyer directly was because I didn't use an agent for the sale.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  Are you staying that the state/county doesn't know that you are the person owning that house, or doesn't know who the previous owner was? This thread is not about privacy from other private citizens/companies, but privacy from the state authorities. For example, my bank account is private in the first sense (even my parents couldn't find out how much money I have unless I tell them), but it's not private in the second sense (financial authorities have the right to ask my bank how much money I have).
- trebbble 4y ago
  > At least in the US, house purchases are by default anonymous. The only reason I know the sellers of my house is because they put in their trust name their full legal names. But most homeowners don't have the house in a trust. That's mostly a rich-people thing. The default is that it's your personal name(s) on the documents, including in e.g. county tax records.
- closewith 4y ago
  What about 1099-S reporting?
  - sidewndr46 4y ago
    Home sales do not universally count as income. Also, it is important to realize that 1099-S reporting applies to individuals like a licensed realtor. Which I am not.
- djbusby 4y ago
  If it's anon, how does the government get their property taxes?
  - sidewndr46 4y ago
    Property taxes are between the owner and the county where I live. They are paid in advance, so you can't sell a house without paying the property tax first. It'd be liened by the tax authority to prevent the sale.
bathory 4y ago
Wrong. Germany for example is known [0] for money laundering through properties, because big cash purchases hardly ever get reported. [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-15/germany-to-stop-property-deals-in-cash-to-fight-money-laundering https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-15/germany-t...

akimball 4y ago

This is accomplished every day in every country in the western hemisphere by means of shell companies.

PeterisP 4y ago
Current EU AML laws are full of requirements for explicit registration of the true beneficiaries for all these companies (including chains of companies); anonymous ownership of companies is becoming illegal in the last couple years.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Looks like the Dutch are just now catching up on that other structure to hide assets: trusts: https://www.loyensloeff.com/insights/news--events/news/bill-for-the-dutch-implementation-of-the-trust-register-approved-by-senate-/ https://www.loyensloeff.com/insights/news--events/news/bill-...

chimeracoder 4y ago

> I doubt you could buy a house anonymously anywhere in the west. In New York, properties are commonly held by LLCs. Transferring ownership of the LLC can be done without any public or auditable record of the transaction.

sidewndr46 4y ago

At least in the US, house purchases are by default anonymous. The only reason I know the sellers of my house is because they put in their trust name their full legal names. Last time I sold a house, the only reason I met with the buyer directly was because I didn't use an agent for the sale.

tsimionescu 4y ago
Are you staying that the state/county doesn't know that you are the person owning that house, or doesn't know who the previous owner was? This thread is not about privacy from other private citizens/companies, but privacy from the state authorities. For example, my bank account is private in the first sense (even my parents couldn't find out how much money I have unless I tell them), but it's not private in the second sense (financial authorities have the right to ask my bank how much money I have).
trebbble 4y ago
> At least in the US, house purchases are by default anonymous. The only reason I know the sellers of my house is because they put in their trust name their full legal names. But most homeowners don't have the house in a trust. That's mostly a rich-people thing. The default is that it's your personal name(s) on the documents, including in e.g. county tax records.
closewith 4y ago
What about 1099-S reporting?
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  Home sales do not universally count as income. Also, it is important to realize that 1099-S reporting applies to individuals like a licensed realtor. Which I am not.
djbusby 4y ago
If it's anon, how does the government get their property taxes?
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  Property taxes are between the owner and the county where I live. They are paid in advance, so you can't sell a house without paying the property tax first. It'd be liened by the tax authority to prevent the sale.

bathory 4y ago

Wrong. Germany for example is known [0] for money laundering through properties, because big cash purchases hardly ever get reported. [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-15/germany-to-stop-property-deals-in-cash-to-fight-money-laundering https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-15/germany-t...