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TikTok is winning because it is video first. The more immersive the media, the more profitable the ads. Facebook is having trouble pivoting it's products to vid

TikTok is winning because it is video first. The more immersive the media, the more profitable the ads. Facebook is having trouble pivoting it's products to video. Facebook is betting big that the next more-immersive medium after video will be VR. That's basically the whole story. Notice I didn't use the word "algorithm" or "social"? These takes are tired and naive, TikTok isn't addictive in any operationally useful sense of the word, people just like it and use it. You may as well write a blog post saying "TV is addictive and it's dying because of commercials". It's just not an accurate conceptualization if the landscape.

ok123456 4y ago
100% this. Everyone else is trying to make a tiktok clone and bolt it on to a maze of existing, and in some cases very similar, social media offerings. TikTok works because it's video only from the ground up.
- LesZedCB 4y ago
  then why didn't vine or snapchat or whatever other video first platform from yesteryear catch on as big too? clearly there's more to it than "it's simply video first"
  - mgraczyk 4y ago
    The fact that it's video first was necessary but not sufficient
    - LesZedCB 4y ago
      yes thanks, that is much more clear
  - shaunxcode 4y ago
    vine did! twitter mothballed it.
    - colinmhayes 4y ago
      Twitter mothballed it’s because it didn’t catch on like TikTok did.
      - woweoe 4y ago
        Vine was forced to intergrade into Twitter.
  - ProfessorLayton 4y ago
    snap is not video first — yes it supports video, but it supports pictures just as well or better since they integrate into chats. vine was literally killed by twitter.
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    vine did snapchat isn't the same they both had implementation differences and primarily execution differences that had little to do with their platform, and more so finances its not just video, its video+algorithm, its video+algorithm+content-subsidies a lot of popular content creators on TikTok are still from the vine days, getting paid a lot more directly by the platforms now, as well as from whatever they can monetize on and off the platform. Bytedance (TikTok) is willing to throw a lot of money at this, and they've been extremely high on compensation for engineers for years before TikTok reached critical mass.
droopyEyelids 4y ago
YouTube is video first. I think TikTok is winning because their objective algorithm optimizes for a different outcome. Facebook and YouTube optimize for time spent on the site. Youtube famously cut ad revenue for content that is watched for fewer than 10 minutes. They both make decisions based on what will increase time spent on the site, thinking that's the best way to sell ads. TikTok optimizes for content that people love by giving the most reach to items that commenters buy gifts for. This has the side effect of making content that consumers really connect with get paid the most. There is a big difference between what people love and what makes people spend a lot of their time.
- mgraczyk 4y ago
  Facebook does not optimize directly for time spent, it's too hard. I know because I worked on these algorithms. Time spent is a metric Facebook monitors and works to increase over time, but basically no work is done to increase time spent directly. Facebook also tries to give more reach to content that people like. There are whole teams of people that work on that, they are just less good at it than TT. Tiktok optimizes for similar metrics. There's no difference there. The main difference is that they are more focused and have been doing short form video from the ground up.
  - slyzmud 4y ago
    Could you share what metrics they optimistize or monitor? Or how do they improve their algorithms? I don't know how much you can tell but I always wanted to hear it from someone who has worked with them
- woweoe 4y ago
  Youtube is also a website first, whereas TikTok is an app first. Apps on mobile are usually harder to leave.
- nicbou 4y ago
  YouTube is losing (for me) because every video is now 12+ minutes long, and my sweet spot is closer to 5. Sometimes you don't want long form content.
wincy 4y ago
My wife deleted TikTok after a few weeks because she just couldn’t handle how addictive it was. All she wanted to do was watch TikTok. Then she started getting Shorts on YouTube now she wants to completely stop watching YouTube even if the old creators she enjoyed are still making philosophy videos and stuff, it’s just not worth it to stick around when the goal has become quite clearly to keep you hooked.
- eligro91 4y ago
  Same here. I completely blocked myself from accessing to YouTube on my smartphone and MacBook, just because of the shorts. This stuff is so addictive that I couldn't avoid it in my free time for dozens of minutes every single time I've opened youtube.
  - yreg 4y ago
    Perhaps too late for you unless you open a new account, but I seriously recomend everyone here to never ever click on a YouTube short while logged in. YouTube will proceed to show that content down your throat and if you are like most people you will let it. It will make your experience miserable though.
    - ElSinchi 4y ago
      I've found quite effective blocking channels and actively informing yt "don't show me more like this"
  - nicbou 4y ago
    I guess I'm lucky that the algorithm associates me with a very different crowd that I want to avoid at all costs. All I get is Family Guy, sigma grindset nonsense, and military stuff. I hate all of those.
- jacooper 4y ago
  She can use custom apps for YouTube like Newpipe, which offer YouTube experiences without ads and Shorts.
thenerdhead 4y ago
While you aren't using the words "algorithm" or "social", another perspective to see is that the "medium" is not just video. It is a specific type of short, repeatable, and trivialized pieces of video content. Created by mostly individual creators in niche social networks that convey extreme feelings of pain and pleasure in an infinite feed. TikTok is addictive in every category. People are addicted to it just like people are addicted to other mediums like books, radio, and tv. Creators are also addicted to creating for it manipulated by incentives and sponsorship opportunities. It is a borderline technological narcotic. To be human is to be addicted to something. We are addicted to the many "wants" in our lives being sold through these 15s-3 minute videos. > You may as well write a blog post saying "TV is addictive and it's dying because of commercials" When the going gets tough, the tough goes shopping. There's actually a few books on this! i.e. consumerism and advertising Four arguments for the elimination of television by Jerry Mander Amusing ourselves to death by Neil Postman The shallows by Nicolas Carr And the classic, brave new world by Aldous Huxley
- thundergolfer 4y ago
  Also Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace. The addictive quality of entertainment is a central theme, and the book contains the memorable Samizdat videotape that’s so entertaining you watch it immobilised until you die. The Samizdat is the reduction ad absurdim of TikTok era social media addiction.
  - coffee_beqn 4y ago
    I guess it’s not a new idea but it is a more potent version of the same. DFW himself had a serious TV addiction which is where that idea comes from.
ParksNet 4y ago
Phone hardware and telecommunications networks have only recently been powerful enough to support a TikTok-like social network. Video wouldn't have worked in 2015 in an era of 3G/4G phones and 4 inch iPhone 5's.
- robgibbons 4y ago
  Vine launched in 2013, Periscope in 2015. I'm sure there are others. TikTok definitely takes advantage of the new hardware with their filters though.

ok123456 4y ago

100% this. Everyone else is trying to make a tiktok clone and bolt it on to a maze of existing, and in some cases very similar, social media offerings. TikTok works because it's video only from the ground up.

LesZedCB 4y ago
then why didn't vine or snapchat or whatever other video first platform from yesteryear catch on as big too? clearly there's more to it than "it's simply video first"
- mgraczyk 4y ago
  The fact that it's video first was necessary but not sufficient
  - LesZedCB 4y ago
    yes thanks, that is much more clear
- shaunxcode 4y ago
  vine did! twitter mothballed it.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    Twitter mothballed it’s because it didn’t catch on like TikTok did.
    - woweoe 4y ago
      Vine was forced to intergrade into Twitter.
- ProfessorLayton 4y ago
  snap is not video first — yes it supports video, but it supports pictures just as well or better since they integrate into chats. vine was literally killed by twitter.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  vine did snapchat isn't the same they both had implementation differences and primarily execution differences that had little to do with their platform, and more so finances its not just video, its video+algorithm, its video+algorithm+content-subsidies a lot of popular content creators on TikTok are still from the vine days, getting paid a lot more directly by the platforms now, as well as from whatever they can monetize on and off the platform. Bytedance (TikTok) is willing to throw a lot of money at this, and they've been extremely high on compensation for engineers for years before TikTok reached critical mass.

droopyEyelids 4y ago

YouTube is video first. I think TikTok is winning because their objective algorithm optimizes for a different outcome. Facebook and YouTube optimize for time spent on the site. Youtube famously cut ad revenue for content that is watched for fewer than 10 minutes. They both make decisions based on what will increase time spent on the site, thinking that's the best way to sell ads. TikTok optimizes for content that people love by giving the most reach to items that commenters buy gifts for. This has the side effect of making content that consumers really connect with get paid the most. There is a big difference between what people love and what makes people spend a lot of their time.

mgraczyk 4y ago
Facebook does not optimize directly for time spent, it's too hard. I know because I worked on these algorithms. Time spent is a metric Facebook monitors and works to increase over time, but basically no work is done to increase time spent directly. Facebook also tries to give more reach to content that people like. There are whole teams of people that work on that, they are just less good at it than TT. Tiktok optimizes for similar metrics. There's no difference there. The main difference is that they are more focused and have been doing short form video from the ground up.
- slyzmud 4y ago
  Could you share what metrics they optimistize or monitor? Or how do they improve their algorithms? I don't know how much you can tell but I always wanted to hear it from someone who has worked with them
woweoe 4y ago
Youtube is also a website first, whereas TikTok is an app first. Apps on mobile are usually harder to leave.
nicbou 4y ago
YouTube is losing (for me) because every video is now 12+ minutes long, and my sweet spot is closer to 5. Sometimes you don't want long form content.

wincy 4y ago

My wife deleted TikTok after a few weeks because she just couldn’t handle how addictive it was. All she wanted to do was watch TikTok. Then she started getting Shorts on YouTube now she wants to completely stop watching YouTube even if the old creators she enjoyed are still making philosophy videos and stuff, it’s just not worth it to stick around when the goal has become quite clearly to keep you hooked.

eligro91 4y ago
Same here. I completely blocked myself from accessing to YouTube on my smartphone and MacBook, just because of the shorts. This stuff is so addictive that I couldn't avoid it in my free time for dozens of minutes every single time I've opened youtube.
- yreg 4y ago
  Perhaps too late for you unless you open a new account, but I seriously recomend everyone here to never ever click on a YouTube short while logged in. YouTube will proceed to show that content down your throat and if you are like most people you will let it. It will make your experience miserable though.
  - ElSinchi 4y ago
    I've found quite effective blocking channels and actively informing yt "don't show me more like this"
- nicbou 4y ago
  I guess I'm lucky that the algorithm associates me with a very different crowd that I want to avoid at all costs. All I get is Family Guy, sigma grindset nonsense, and military stuff. I hate all of those.
jacooper 4y ago
She can use custom apps for YouTube like Newpipe, which offer YouTube experiences without ads and Shorts.

thenerdhead 4y ago

While you aren't using the words "algorithm" or "social", another perspective to see is that the "medium" is not just video. It is a specific type of short, repeatable, and trivialized pieces of video content. Created by mostly individual creators in niche social networks that convey extreme feelings of pain and pleasure in an infinite feed. TikTok is addictive in every category. People are addicted to it just like people are addicted to other mediums like books, radio, and tv. Creators are also addicted to creating for it manipulated by incentives and sponsorship opportunities. It is a borderline technological narcotic. To be human is to be addicted to something. We are addicted to the many "wants" in our lives being sold through these 15s-3 minute videos. > You may as well write a blog post saying "TV is addictive and it's dying because of commercials" When the going gets tough, the tough goes shopping. There's actually a few books on this! i.e. consumerism and advertising Four arguments for the elimination of television by Jerry Mander Amusing ourselves to death by Neil Postman The shallows by Nicolas Carr And the classic, brave new world by Aldous Huxley

thundergolfer 4y ago
Also Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace. The addictive quality of entertainment is a central theme, and the book contains the memorable Samizdat videotape that’s so entertaining you watch it immobilised until you die. The Samizdat is the reduction ad absurdim of TikTok era social media addiction.
- coffee_beqn 4y ago
  I guess it’s not a new idea but it is a more potent version of the same. DFW himself had a serious TV addiction which is where that idea comes from.

ParksNet 4y ago

Phone hardware and telecommunications networks have only recently been powerful enough to support a TikTok-like social network. Video wouldn't have worked in 2015 in an era of 3G/4G phones and 4 inch iPhone 5's.

robgibbons 4y ago
Vine launched in 2013, Periscope in 2015. I'm sure there are others. TikTok definitely takes advantage of the new hardware with their filters though.