8 ms·

Inspiring story all round but this paragraph stood out for me: “I didn't have a mentor to help me, really, so each time a motor failed, I had to do tons of res

Inspiring story all round but this paragraph stood out for me: “I didn't have a mentor to help me, really, so each time a motor failed, I had to do tons of research and try and troubleshoot what went wrong,” he says. “But eventually on the 15th motor, I was able to get a working prototype.” I imagine most 17 year old would not have kept going 15+ times until they arrived at something which worked.

strikelaserclaw 4y ago
he will have learned at some point that most valuable skill one can learn is self reliance in the face of adversity.
c22 4y ago
Really? In my observations only 17 year olds have the time and patience to do crap like this.
- furyofantares 4y ago
  Both things ring fairly true
- mrexroad 4y ago
  Only if their parents have blocked TikTok, most of YouTube, and PlayStation. </sarcasm of parent of kids faced with endless parade of distractions>
  - WarOnPrivacy 4y ago
    What kids do depends on lots of things, including the makeup of the kid. None of my 5 were heavy into social media, even tho I was for 15 years. One followed my skillset and became heavy into computers/electronics (8y-now) and old cars (19y-now). The other 4 didn't pickup strong hobbies. I believe it's because there weren't available examples that fit their abilities. Two settled on gaming (one now a technician tho). One does music and graphic art.
  - VLM 4y ago
    Ironically Minecraft would be good training for this level of dedication
  - tqi 4y ago
    Have you seen the amount of effort and repetition it takes to make a TikTok?
- throwaway14356 4y ago
  which says a lot about the state of the industry. The best part to me is the large amount of designs one shouldn't bother to talk about because it is much more important to hysterically moan about potential perpetual motion than discus any motor/engine improvement.
- mhh__ 4y ago
  Lots of time but no money. Like the guy who makes his own chips. Super impressive but there's no way in hell I could've ever afforded to do that (I did look into it when I was 18)
- todd8 4y ago
  Back before the internet, in 1964, I read a brief Scientific American column on laboratory glass blowing (for making condensers and so forth). This set me on a quest; and I acquired supplies and primitive homemade equipment. I was years away from being able to drive so I took the bus downtown to the Detroit public library where I found several books devoted to the subject. I studied these for hours. I worked on this project for many days. I ended up being able to make a few primitive items from my tubes of glass, but of course, it was a silly pursuit that led nowhere. So I moved on to my next project, making a solid fuel rocket from scratch, then an arc furnace, then gunpowder, then a homemade gas-mask, etc. So it was for a curious kid in the 60's. I'm lucky I didn't burn down the house. This of course was made possible by the lack of an internet (and of course periodicals like Scientific American back when it was great and really about science). I admire the 17-year old in the article for coming up with something in this age when it is so much easier to entertain oneself by surfing the net.
  - RHSeeger 4y ago
    > So I moved on to my next project, making a solid fuel rocket from scratch Remember when you could get the ingredients to do things like that easily; sometimes even in a "Science Kit for Kids!" one would buy at Caldor or the like? Man, how times have changed.
    - radicalbyte 4y ago
      I'm 42, when I sent my mom out with a shopping list for this stuff as a kid it ended up in her (almost) being arrested.
      - todd8 4y ago
        Yes, back in the 60's my buddy and I asked our parents to buy us some powdered aluminum and iron-oxide. We got in trouble because the chemical supply company warned them about our requested ingredients. That was the end of our homemade thermite project. So it was on to another project, homemade lock-picks.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  Most 17 years old don't have access to 3d printers. Equipment is a big factor in making something tangible.
  - Consultant32452 4y ago
    One third of 17 year olds cannot read at grade level.
    - robotresearcher 4y ago
      Do you mean in the US, globally, or what? HN has lots of readership outside the US.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - OJFord 4y ago
    Are you sure about that? I don't know when you're allowed to leave school in the US, but they're pretty popular in schools - relatively cheap tools & a lot safer than others. They didn't exist (in the mainstream at least) when I was at school, but we had laser cutter/engravers for example. I know which I'd pick if I were in control of the budget (and had to choose one).
    - crysin 4y ago
      My High School which was a fairly well funded public High School in Illinois, US hadn't upgraded their shop equipment since the 80s really it felt like. We had wood tools, saws, the basics only. The coolest thing we had was a smelting forge, but students weren't allowed to use it due to safety concerns. This was in the late 2000s.
    - digitallyfree 4y ago
      Whether you're able to use the equipment for tasks outside of the specific class (even if it's school related like a science fair project) is another issue. I've seen different schools in the same district do things differently - one for instance allowed students to say use the media lab to record a drama production and had a maker club where students could use the machine shop for personal projects. Others very strictly restricted the use of school equipment for the specific class in question (e.g. only shop class students can use the machine tools and only for projects related to that class). It really depends on the instructor and the school administration.
- EvanAnderson 4y ago
  I don’t know about “only”, but my observations are that they do. I’ve volunteered for a youth leadership camp every summer since 1998. Our attendees are 16-18 y/o males exclusively (there’s a female version of the camp but I don’t work there so I have no opinion on that side). Our attendees have been thru a selection process, so I’m not seeing a representative cross section of Ohio, US males of that age. In our sample, though, the number of focused and determined young men is very high. I’m not at all surprised a 17 y/o would have the drive and determination to keep trying over and over. Not all of them are that way— surely it’s a very small percentage. Nonetheless, that determination isn’t an anomaly in my experience.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  I kinda agree. That is around the age when you still can have the free time and energy to do what is essentially huge amount of grind. It is just question where the focus is. It might be games, books, music, anime and so on. Older you get less there is time and energy. And more responsibilities.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  You can both be right!
- jhoechtl 4y ago
  In a not so distant past state fund academia had the time to pursue their research without the need to deliver what economy donors deemed relevant. Then research got increasingly economy funded. Today we are at two, minutes two millions. Innovation doesn't always need the big team but time, deep understanding of a few (one?), patience, dedication and endurance.
melony 4y ago
He is from an upper middle class family at the minimum. Hardware projects at his scale is not exactly a low cost expenditure, even with AliExpress and cheap Asian parts of questionable quality. I doubt he even needs the winnings to pay tuition.
- sebastianconcpt 4y ago
  In what all that resentment towards him is helping you or anyone?
  - melony 4y ago
    No, but pointing out something that most people seem to gloss over. It is like reading "startup X raised Y dollar with a Z year old founder" articles and oohing and aahing while misunderstanding the actual circumstances that got them there. It is never about solely the product and idea, HN hates to acknowledge this but you don't raise money without strong connections and network, and it is the same story for science fairs (especially at the pre-undergraduate level). Follow your children to the next state-level science fair and most of the top award winners will have similar backgrounds. Almost always a relative or "family friend" in academia/research who's guiding them, either that or a blank cheque for the children/extremely well funded school clubs.
    - llaolleh 4y ago
      You're correct. Those factors are often overlooked. Kids don't even know that if they ask enough times, there are kind people who are willing to help them. All this leads me to conclude that we need to do better so these resources to innovate and learn are accessible to all.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > resentment towards him is helping you or anyone? Where do you see resentment? It's like saying "anyone could have been Bill Gates" except that Bill Gates had access to lab computers much earlier than any other kid of his generation (and his family was well off, too). A touch with reality is always helpful in an ocean of optimism.
johnohara 4y ago
My experience teaching high school kids was just the opposite. Quite a few will stay with a problem long after most so-called "prudent" adults have moved on. As adults, we forget that 17 year olds are still living their lives in a world of what they don't know, not in what they know. And once they do know they can be very insistent about being right. Because, it's all they know. It's also how a team of 16-17 yr olds can somehow manage to win when the odds are completely against them. All they know is what they want to see happen. And they will keep trying until they succeed, the clock runs out, or the other team makes it painfully obvious by completely routing them.
- callumprentice 4y ago
  Interesting, thank you. My assertion was based on my own 17 year old self, my peers at that time as well as people that age now. Sounds like the opposite could be true. I find that quite heartening.
- mhh__ 4y ago
  It's a somewhat common joke in physics departments to compute something up to (say) N=3 then say "Well if we were undergraduate students we might compute this up to N=100"
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- LilBytes 4y ago
  "My experience teaching high school kids was just the opposite. Quite a few will stay with a problem long after most so-called "prudent" adults have moved on." Honestly I've made a career of this but I never got close to building a novel engine as a kid, I was too busy wanting to play C+C or breaking through my parents tea collection, trying to smoke them and calculating if there was a high or how much it caused me to cough.
mhh__ 4y ago
I built a niche little bit of tech (not really invention as much as applying a old idea to a backward field) when I was 19, I could've kept going but I ran out of money on the 2nd iteration because RF is an expensive hobby.
- melony 4y ago
  RF is a very, very, expensive hobby. What was the idea you had for the field?
  - mhh__ 4y ago
    Using RF rather than capacitive methods to detect hits between sabre fencers. I built the first one basically out of scraps and rtl SDRs, second one out of slightly better Chinese crap then ran out of money. Would be a compliance nightmare to sell either iterations. If I could do it with TDR instead I don't know
bastardoperator 4y ago
In my experience young minds are far more likely to keep at it where most adults take issue with repetitive processes.
diego_sandoval 4y ago
Makes me realize that it wasn't lack of opportunities or lack of mentorship that stopped me from achieving what I wanted when I was a teenager, it's just that I didn't want it bad enough.

strikelaserclaw 4y ago

he will have learned at some point that most valuable skill one can learn is self reliance in the face of adversity.

c22 4y ago

Really? In my observations only 17 year olds have the time and patience to do crap like this.

furyofantares 4y ago
Both things ring fairly true
mrexroad 4y ago
Only if their parents have blocked TikTok, most of YouTube, and PlayStation. </sarcasm of parent of kids faced with endless parade of distractions>
- WarOnPrivacy 4y ago
  What kids do depends on lots of things, including the makeup of the kid. None of my 5 were heavy into social media, even tho I was for 15 years. One followed my skillset and became heavy into computers/electronics (8y-now) and old cars (19y-now). The other 4 didn't pickup strong hobbies. I believe it's because there weren't available examples that fit their abilities. Two settled on gaming (one now a technician tho). One does music and graphic art.
- VLM 4y ago
  Ironically Minecraft would be good training for this level of dedication
- tqi 4y ago
  Have you seen the amount of effort and repetition it takes to make a TikTok?
throwaway14356 4y ago
which says a lot about the state of the industry. The best part to me is the large amount of designs one shouldn't bother to talk about because it is much more important to hysterically moan about potential perpetual motion than discus any motor/engine improvement.
mhh__ 4y ago
Lots of time but no money. Like the guy who makes his own chips. Super impressive but there's no way in hell I could've ever afforded to do that (I did look into it when I was 18)
todd8 4y ago
Back before the internet, in 1964, I read a brief Scientific American column on laboratory glass blowing (for making condensers and so forth). This set me on a quest; and I acquired supplies and primitive homemade equipment. I was years away from being able to drive so I took the bus downtown to the Detroit public library where I found several books devoted to the subject. I studied these for hours. I worked on this project for many days. I ended up being able to make a few primitive items from my tubes of glass, but of course, it was a silly pursuit that led nowhere. So I moved on to my next project, making a solid fuel rocket from scratch, then an arc furnace, then gunpowder, then a homemade gas-mask, etc. So it was for a curious kid in the 60's. I'm lucky I didn't burn down the house. This of course was made possible by the lack of an internet (and of course periodicals like Scientific American back when it was great and really about science). I admire the 17-year old in the article for coming up with something in this age when it is so much easier to entertain oneself by surfing the net.
- RHSeeger 4y ago
  > So I moved on to my next project, making a solid fuel rocket from scratch Remember when you could get the ingredients to do things like that easily; sometimes even in a "Science Kit for Kids!" one would buy at Caldor or the like? Man, how times have changed.
  - radicalbyte 4y ago
    I'm 42, when I sent my mom out with a shopping list for this stuff as a kid it ended up in her (almost) being arrested.
    - todd8 4y ago
      Yes, back in the 60's my buddy and I asked our parents to buy us some powdered aluminum and iron-oxide. We got in trouble because the chemical supply company warned them about our requested ingredients. That was the end of our homemade thermite project. So it was on to another project, homemade lock-picks.
ekianjo 4y ago
Most 17 years old don't have access to 3d printers. Equipment is a big factor in making something tangible.
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  One third of 17 year olds cannot read at grade level.
  - robotresearcher 4y ago
    Do you mean in the US, globally, or what? HN has lots of readership outside the US.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- OJFord 4y ago
  Are you sure about that? I don't know when you're allowed to leave school in the US, but they're pretty popular in schools - relatively cheap tools & a lot safer than others. They didn't exist (in the mainstream at least) when I was at school, but we had laser cutter/engravers for example. I know which I'd pick if I were in control of the budget (and had to choose one).
  - crysin 4y ago
    My High School which was a fairly well funded public High School in Illinois, US hadn't upgraded their shop equipment since the 80s really it felt like. We had wood tools, saws, the basics only. The coolest thing we had was a smelting forge, but students weren't allowed to use it due to safety concerns. This was in the late 2000s.
  - digitallyfree 4y ago
    Whether you're able to use the equipment for tasks outside of the specific class (even if it's school related like a science fair project) is another issue. I've seen different schools in the same district do things differently - one for instance allowed students to say use the media lab to record a drama production and had a maker club where students could use the machine shop for personal projects. Others very strictly restricted the use of school equipment for the specific class in question (e.g. only shop class students can use the machine tools and only for projects related to that class). It really depends on the instructor and the school administration.
EvanAnderson 4y ago
I don’t know about “only”, but my observations are that they do. I’ve volunteered for a youth leadership camp every summer since 1998. Our attendees are 16-18 y/o males exclusively (there’s a female version of the camp but I don’t work there so I have no opinion on that side). Our attendees have been thru a selection process, so I’m not seeing a representative cross section of Ohio, US males of that age. In our sample, though, the number of focused and determined young men is very high. I’m not at all surprised a 17 y/o would have the drive and determination to keep trying over and over. Not all of them are that way— surely it’s a very small percentage. Nonetheless, that determination isn’t an anomaly in my experience.
Ekaros 4y ago
I kinda agree. That is around the age when you still can have the free time and energy to do what is essentially huge amount of grind. It is just question where the focus is. It might be games, books, music, anime and so on. Older you get less there is time and energy. And more responsibilities.
thehappypm 4y ago
You can both be right!
jhoechtl 4y ago
In a not so distant past state fund academia had the time to pursue their research without the need to deliver what economy donors deemed relevant. Then research got increasingly economy funded. Today we are at two, minutes two millions. Innovation doesn't always need the big team but time, deep understanding of a few (one?), patience, dedication and endurance.

melony 4y ago

He is from an upper middle class family at the minimum. Hardware projects at his scale is not exactly a low cost expenditure, even with AliExpress and cheap Asian parts of questionable quality. I doubt he even needs the winnings to pay tuition.

sebastianconcpt 4y ago
In what all that resentment towards him is helping you or anyone?
- melony 4y ago
  No, but pointing out something that most people seem to gloss over. It is like reading "startup X raised Y dollar with a Z year old founder" articles and oohing and aahing while misunderstanding the actual circumstances that got them there. It is never about solely the product and idea, HN hates to acknowledge this but you don't raise money without strong connections and network, and it is the same story for science fairs (especially at the pre-undergraduate level). Follow your children to the next state-level science fair and most of the top award winners will have similar backgrounds. Almost always a relative or "family friend" in academia/research who's guiding them, either that or a blank cheque for the children/extremely well funded school clubs.
  - llaolleh 4y ago
    You're correct. Those factors are often overlooked. Kids don't even know that if they ask enough times, there are kind people who are willing to help them. All this leads me to conclude that we need to do better so these resources to innovate and learn are accessible to all.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > resentment towards him is helping you or anyone? Where do you see resentment? It's like saying "anyone could have been Bill Gates" except that Bill Gates had access to lab computers much earlier than any other kid of his generation (and his family was well off, too). A touch with reality is always helpful in an ocean of optimism.

johnohara 4y ago

My experience teaching high school kids was just the opposite. Quite a few will stay with a problem long after most so-called "prudent" adults have moved on. As adults, we forget that 17 year olds are still living their lives in a world of what they don't know, not in what they know. And once they do know they can be very insistent about being right. Because, it's all they know. It's also how a team of 16-17 yr olds can somehow manage to win when the odds are completely against them. All they know is what they want to see happen. And they will keep trying until they succeed, the clock runs out, or the other team makes it painfully obvious by completely routing them.

callumprentice 4y ago
Interesting, thank you. My assertion was based on my own 17 year old self, my peers at that time as well as people that age now. Sounds like the opposite could be true. I find that quite heartening.
mhh__ 4y ago
It's a somewhat common joke in physics departments to compute something up to (say) N=3 then say "Well if we were undergraduate students we might compute this up to N=100"
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
LilBytes 4y ago
"My experience teaching high school kids was just the opposite. Quite a few will stay with a problem long after most so-called "prudent" adults have moved on." Honestly I've made a career of this but I never got close to building a novel engine as a kid, I was too busy wanting to play C+C or breaking through my parents tea collection, trying to smoke them and calculating if there was a high or how much it caused me to cough.

mhh__ 4y ago

I built a niche little bit of tech (not really invention as much as applying a old idea to a backward field) when I was 19, I could've kept going but I ran out of money on the 2nd iteration because RF is an expensive hobby.

melony 4y ago
RF is a very, very, expensive hobby. What was the idea you had for the field?
- mhh__ 4y ago
  Using RF rather than capacitive methods to detect hits between sabre fencers. I built the first one basically out of scraps and rtl SDRs, second one out of slightly better Chinese crap then ran out of money. Would be a compliance nightmare to sell either iterations. If I could do it with TDR instead I don't know

bastardoperator 4y ago

In my experience young minds are far more likely to keep at it where most adults take issue with repetitive processes.

diego_sandoval 4y ago

Makes me realize that it wasn't lack of opportunities or lack of mentorship that stopped me from achieving what I wanted when I was a teenager, it's just that I didn't want it bad enough.