7 ms·

Gen Z question saving money for a future that looks so bleak

22 points by ryanmercer 4y ago

jollyllama 4y ago
In fairness, what are they supposed to do? The asset bubble has yet to pop and the money gets inflated faster than they can reasonably save.
rogerkirkness 4y ago
Ah yes, indeterminate pessimism at work. The savings rate in China is 50% because in determinate pessimism you want to make sure you're prepared for the worst.
- cweill 4y ago
  I see you've read Zero to One. :) Indeterminate pessimism also means they aren't taking economic risks, whereas many Gen-Z are becoming content creators or starting businesses with their savings, so it could be more determinate optimism. Possibly naive, but time will tell.
  - rogerkirkness 4y ago
    Good point, if we reached superabundance I think media would stick with the world is ending narrative.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Sounds like a sharp contrast to the whole lying flat thing
PebblesHD 4y ago
‘Save money so you don’t retire eating cat food’ - This statement presumes my generation will ever be able to retire. In Sydney, houses are so expensive my whole generation will be practically forced to rent for life, there’s no retiring when your rent is doubled the entire aged pension. I genuinely think the economic system will need a complete rethink in the next 20 years or so, because right now it’s completely failing to deliver for my generation. No matter how well we do, the basic life goals of home ownership and starting a family are out of reach for us.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  Do Gen Z people just stop playing the game at some stage. Who is going to enforce this? The rapidly aging majority of the populace? Will they just keep paying higher and higher taxes to support elderly people who likely own much more than they ? I don't think this is a desirable outcome, but I can also see it being an option. Essentially people just checking out from conventional work hard, pay high taxes, have less. Not sure if people will stick with that for too long. I looked up Australian house prices and they're so ridiculous it's hard to even fathom. It's a great place but really, wow?
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Do Gen Z people just stop playing the game at some stage. Who is going to enforce this? The rapidly aging majority of the populace? Will they just keep paying higher and higher taxes to support elderly people who likely own much more than they ? Gen Z people will enforce it. No group ever acts as a monolith. For a dumb fictional example, IIRC, all the enforcers in Hunger Games were members of one of the subjugated districts given a better quality of life due to their service. For a real-life example, I believe in Russian and Chinese prisons, the lowest level of enforcement and supervision are actually consists of inmates who've been given privileges by the guards.
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      I mean, if you want a bleaker example, look at the capos in concentration camps.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > I mean, if you want a bleaker example, look at the capos in concentration camps. I think that's actually more or less the same system that I was referring to, I just couldn't remember the term.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > I genuinely think the economic system will need a complete rethink in the next 20 years or so, because right now it’s completely failing to deliver for my generation. No matter how well we do, the basic life goals of home ownership and starting a family are out of reach for us. Nah, we'll just adopt something like the Logan's Run solution: replace the pension with carrousel and otherwise stay the course.
bush-bby 4y ago
thenerdhead 4y ago
I think the last two generations have gone through stressful times and developed "learned helplessness". I know I did at some point speaking as a millennial. While millennials are old enough now to appreciate compounding wealth, gen Z still has a few more years until that happens on average. Most people start actively investing in their 30s. Instead of helplessness, there is the idea of "learned hopefulness" to take a more proactive approach to one's future, even in the bleakest of times. A good way to visualize that is by looking at the S&P 500 all-time graph and getting into the habit of regularly investing a modest amount as you skill up and expand your earning potential with age.
- qsort 4y ago
  It's the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course the future is going to be bleak and uncertain if you talk yourself into this weird idea that you don't need savings. Start investing the day you get your first job and let the exponential function do what it does best.
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    What would you suggest people invest in right now ? Property? Demographic collapses incoming in multiple developed countries, there will be a surplus of land in a decade or two? Climate change, where do you buy that's safe? Shares? Going backwards, lots of uncertainty, potential war /conflict about to break out in the pacific.High inflation, interest rates. I sold all my shares a few months back, not looking like the best of times to get back in, not the worst either. Gold?
    - qsort 4y ago
      > What would you suggest people invest in right now ? A mix of high quality long term bonds and stocks, depending on the desired risk profile, the same boring answer you'll get from anybody else. > Demographic collapses incoming in multiple developed countries, there will be a surplus of land in a decade or two? Very much a fantasy. > Shares? Going backwards, lots of uncertainty, potential war /conflict about to break out in the pacific.High inflation, interest rates. The idea is to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. I have 40+ years of work ahead of me. We had recessions before.
NonNefarious 4y ago
Enough with these idiotic labels. "Gen Z?" COME ON.
- yoyohello13 4y ago
  It's following the logical progression: Gen X, Millennial (Gen Y), Gen Z.
  - e2le 4y ago
    Is Gen Z supposed to be the last generation?
    - Konnstann 4y ago
      Pretty sure they just swap to the Greek alphabet after, so the next one would be Gen alpha.
    - the_only_law 4y ago
      No there’s actually a generation “alpha” after that.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - UncleEntity 4y ago
    Technically…the “X” was to signify that it couldn’t be easily classified.
    - NonNefarious 4y ago
      Which means it should have resumed after the ~three-year window of so-called "Millennials."
  - NonNefarious 4y ago
    Labeling "generations" is stupid to begin with, but there's nothing going on at the moment. There's no millennium change or anything else of note. So what we have for the foreseeable 80 years is "the nothings." Want to talk about an age group? Say what it is. How dumb can people be? Here, let's walk though it: "Today, 20-30 year-olds face a variety of economic challenges." OMG, that was soooo easy! I didn't have to make up or look up a bullshit label! YAY!
rhexs 4y ago
The entire article is just that Denver is the new California. Move elsewhere.
gedy 4y ago
I think the vast majority of this is due to high home and rental prices. I really think we need to fix this, especially when demographics are trending towards less people.
octokatt 4y ago
https://archive.ph/h1jY6 https://archive.ph/h1jY6
octokatt 4y ago
TL;DR: Gen Z and Millenials, watching the collapse of their ability to buy a house, and possibly even retire on a habitable planet, are deciding to spend money on things they can actually achieve and enjoy.
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  Alternative TL;DR: we’re too far away from my grandparents’ generation where they grew up in the Great Depression and Dust Bowl then WWII and really knew what a bleak future looked like.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  I agree. As a millennial I am not making any savings and am completely content with the fact, that my retirement - when I can't work and running out of money to live - is a piece of rope.

22 points by ryanmercer 4y ago

In fairness, what are they supposed to do? The asset bubble has yet to pop and the money gets inflated faster than they can reasonably save.

rogerkirkness 4y ago

Ah yes, indeterminate pessimism at work. The savings rate in China is 50% because in determinate pessimism you want to make sure you're prepared for the worst.

cweill 4y ago
I see you've read Zero to One. :) Indeterminate pessimism also means they aren't taking economic risks, whereas many Gen-Z are becoming content creators or starting businesses with their savings, so it could be more determinate optimism. Possibly naive, but time will tell.
- rogerkirkness 4y ago
  Good point, if we reached superabundance I think media would stick with the world is ending narrative.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
Sounds like a sharp contrast to the whole lying flat thing

PebblesHD 4y ago

‘Save money so you don’t retire eating cat food’ - This statement presumes my generation will ever be able to retire. In Sydney, houses are so expensive my whole generation will be practically forced to rent for life, there’s no retiring when your rent is doubled the entire aged pension. I genuinely think the economic system will need a complete rethink in the next 20 years or so, because right now it’s completely failing to deliver for my generation. No matter how well we do, the basic life goals of home ownership and starting a family are out of reach for us.

bamboozled 4y ago
Do Gen Z people just stop playing the game at some stage. Who is going to enforce this? The rapidly aging majority of the populace? Will they just keep paying higher and higher taxes to support elderly people who likely own much more than they ? I don't think this is a desirable outcome, but I can also see it being an option. Essentially people just checking out from conventional work hard, pay high taxes, have less. Not sure if people will stick with that for too long. I looked up Australian house prices and they're so ridiculous it's hard to even fathom. It's a great place but really, wow?
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Do Gen Z people just stop playing the game at some stage. Who is going to enforce this? The rapidly aging majority of the populace? Will they just keep paying higher and higher taxes to support elderly people who likely own much more than they ? Gen Z people will enforce it. No group ever acts as a monolith. For a dumb fictional example, IIRC, all the enforcers in Hunger Games were members of one of the subjugated districts given a better quality of life due to their service. For a real-life example, I believe in Russian and Chinese prisons, the lowest level of enforcement and supervision are actually consists of inmates who've been given privileges by the guards.
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    I mean, if you want a bleaker example, look at the capos in concentration camps.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > I mean, if you want a bleaker example, look at the capos in concentration camps. I think that's actually more or less the same system that I was referring to, I just couldn't remember the term.
tablespoon 4y ago
> I genuinely think the economic system will need a complete rethink in the next 20 years or so, because right now it’s completely failing to deliver for my generation. No matter how well we do, the basic life goals of home ownership and starting a family are out of reach for us. Nah, we'll just adopt something like the Logan's Run solution: replace the pension with carrousel and otherwise stay the course.

bush-bby 4y ago

thenerdhead 4y ago

I think the last two generations have gone through stressful times and developed "learned helplessness". I know I did at some point speaking as a millennial. While millennials are old enough now to appreciate compounding wealth, gen Z still has a few more years until that happens on average. Most people start actively investing in their 30s. Instead of helplessness, there is the idea of "learned hopefulness" to take a more proactive approach to one's future, even in the bleakest of times. A good way to visualize that is by looking at the S&P 500 all-time graph and getting into the habit of regularly investing a modest amount as you skill up and expand your earning potential with age.

qsort 4y ago
It's the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course the future is going to be bleak and uncertain if you talk yourself into this weird idea that you don't need savings. Start investing the day you get your first job and let the exponential function do what it does best.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  What would you suggest people invest in right now ? Property? Demographic collapses incoming in multiple developed countries, there will be a surplus of land in a decade or two? Climate change, where do you buy that's safe? Shares? Going backwards, lots of uncertainty, potential war /conflict about to break out in the pacific.High inflation, interest rates. I sold all my shares a few months back, not looking like the best of times to get back in, not the worst either. Gold?
  - qsort 4y ago
    > What would you suggest people invest in right now ? A mix of high quality long term bonds and stocks, depending on the desired risk profile, the same boring answer you'll get from anybody else. > Demographic collapses incoming in multiple developed countries, there will be a surplus of land in a decade or two? Very much a fantasy. > Shares? Going backwards, lots of uncertainty, potential war /conflict about to break out in the pacific.High inflation, interest rates. The idea is to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. I have 40+ years of work ahead of me. We had recessions before.

NonNefarious 4y ago

Enough with these idiotic labels. "Gen Z?" COME ON.

yoyohello13 4y ago
It's following the logical progression: Gen X, Millennial (Gen Y), Gen Z.
- e2le 4y ago
  Is Gen Z supposed to be the last generation?
  - Konnstann 4y ago
    Pretty sure they just swap to the Greek alphabet after, so the next one would be Gen alpha.
  - the_only_law 4y ago
    No there’s actually a generation “alpha” after that.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  Technically…the “X” was to signify that it couldn’t be easily classified.
  - NonNefarious 4y ago
    Which means it should have resumed after the ~three-year window of so-called "Millennials."
- NonNefarious 4y ago
  Labeling "generations" is stupid to begin with, but there's nothing going on at the moment. There's no millennium change or anything else of note. So what we have for the foreseeable 80 years is "the nothings." Want to talk about an age group? Say what it is. How dumb can people be? Here, let's walk though it: "Today, 20-30 year-olds face a variety of economic challenges." OMG, that was soooo easy! I didn't have to make up or look up a bullshit label! YAY!

rhexs 4y ago

The entire article is just that Denver is the new California. Move elsewhere.

gedy 4y ago

I think the vast majority of this is due to high home and rental prices. I really think we need to fix this, especially when demographics are trending towards less people.

octokatt 4y ago

https://archive.ph/h1jY6 https://archive.ph/h1jY6

octokatt 4y ago

TL;DR: Gen Z and Millenials, watching the collapse of their ability to buy a house, and possibly even retire on a habitable planet, are deciding to spend money on things they can actually achieve and enjoy.

UncleEntity 4y ago
Alternative TL;DR: we’re too far away from my grandparents’ generation where they grew up in the Great Depression and Dust Bowl then WWII and really knew what a bleak future looked like.
TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
I agree. As a millennial I am not making any savings and am completely content with the fact, that my retirement - when I can't work and running out of money to live - is a piece of rope.