4 ms·
If a company released an Easy-To-Repair EV, and that gave them a huge competitive advantage, then its competitors would have to follow through or perish. But ri
by otikik 4y ago
If a company released an Easy-To-Repair EV, and that gave them a huge competitive advantage, then its competitors would have to follow through or perish. But right now EVs are still targeting rich guys, for which the car is a symbol of status. Those people don't care about repairability. I think the only one who is trying to cast a wider network in the west is Dacia, with its Spring. I don't know how much repair-friendly those are. Probably it's still locked down like everyone else's.
From the POV of car manufacturers this is a risky business decision. "Can this new audience and the increase in sells justify my loss in repairs?".
Regulations will eventually happen, at least in EU. I guess we will see how effective they are.
- dzhiurgis 4y agoMaking it more repairable also means it's more prone to break. Look at Apple's laptops - one blob of RAM and CPU is way less likely to break than huge connectors that you gonna mingle with your greasy fingers. Waterproof iPhone is way harder to open and seal after, but it's a fricking waterproof iPhone. Mine has been in water multiple times now (also slapped concrete 10x times with no case with 0 damage).
- actionfromafar 4y agoThis is stretching an analog way too far. A car is necessarily a mechanical contraption. There is no inherent conflict between reliable and easily repairable in that domain.
- panick21_ 4y agoActually you are disagreeing with vehicle engineers. Because every single connection is a failure point. Every screw, every clip and so on is a failure point. A very reliable car would be cast in a single part. That would not be reparable. If you want to make things reparable you need to make them in many parts that can be individually replaced. That means many failure points.
- anovikov 4y agoElectric cars make for about 1/4 of all European vehicles sold these days and about 1/6 worldwide. They are no longer targeting just the rich people. Most electric cars sold aren't luxury at all.
- adrianN 4y agoMost new cars sold are company cars.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y agoMost?? Do you have a source? I see that 20% of car sales are fleet cars: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.barsnet.com/fleet-customers-make-up-nearly-20-percent-of-auto-sales/&ved=2ahUKEwiJhcaph7z5AhWeKUQIHe7HCRoQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0H6g5Ch7Tm45Ue4lzVNNSu https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/... But, I didn't find anything about >50%
- gambiting 4y agoI think it's true for some brands, but definitely not for all. BMW's CEO said recently that 90% of their cars are sold as company cars. Tbh that could also be slightly misleading, because if you run a car leasing company, you also count as a "company buyer" even though your final customers aren't that.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- anovikov 4y agoExactly, and that INCLUDES rental companies and lease companies: lease companies provide cars for lease mostly to individuals so these are only formally "company cars". At most 10% are really "company cars" in the sense that "they are bought by companies to be used by their employees for business purposes e.g. delivery vans".
- gambiting 4y agoThe Volkswagen e-Up(and its sisters - Skoda Citigo and Seat Mii Electric) are a pleasure to work with. I'm sure repairing one won't be any issue at all, in fact it should be easier than literally any ICE car. The interior is simple too - no stupid touch interfaces anywhere, everything is laid out logically and "just" works. I also regularly get over 160 miles range. And at £20k it's one of the cheapest EVs you can buy currently. Ditto all of the above with the MG ZS EV, MG EV5 and the upcoming EV4 - those are cheap, simple EVs, that shouldn't be difficult to maintain at all. Of course when you look at the market and only see all the E-Trons and EQCs and iX3s and whatnot, it might seem like the EV future is hostile for customers - but those brands were making cars like that even without electric drivetrains. Ask anyone how much fun maintaing a brand new ICE BMW or Audi is exactly. But, that's not the whole market. There is still plenty of competition from cheaper, more maintainable EV cars, and there will only be more as time goes on.
- southerntofu 4y agoThat's interesting, thanks for sharing! Are you aware of how many controllers an e-Up has? How easy/expensive is it to find replacement parts? Also how many are actually in the critical path to keep the car running? The presenter in the video says only 3 micro-controllers should be required to operate an electric car in a road-safe manner. However every car model now has hundreds of these and a failure in a single part can take the whole car to refuse to start. So if you find an electric car with few and standard off-the-shelf components, you struck a gold mine and should let us all know about it :)
- Mengkudulangsat 4y agoOK hear me out: Framework EV That would be awesome.
- Iolaum 4y agoDoubt market is mature enough for that yet.
- nrp 4y agoLong term roadmap, along with the Framework tractor…
- mixmastamyk 4y agoHi, ordered in June, says it will arrive in August. Unfortunately schools starts on the 15th, wondering how I can goose delivery a bit? :-D
- Kuinox 4y agoCitroen Ami (6.9k€) is surely not targeted for rich guys. - Dacia Spring is 19.5k€ - Renault Twingo Electric is 24k€ - Peugeot e-208 is 19.9k€ - Fiat 500e is 26.2k€ This is without carbon bonus, which is about 1k€ in france.
- PinguTS 4y agoFirst time buyers don't care about repair-ability, because they own their car on a lease for 3 to 5 years and then get a new one. Because within this lifespan normally there are no repairs and if so, then they are covered by the manufacturer guaranteed. It is the secondary market that care about this. The market here would be then, if there would be such a manufacturer, then the cars on the secondary market hold better value then the others. So that the market value of the other cars vanished. That would increase the premiums on the lease for the first time buyers. So then the first time buyers may consider the more cheaper lease. That is a very complex market. For that reason it is easier for the OEM to focus only on the first time buyer than the secondary market. Also they want to sell cars. So they shouldn't be around for too long. Disclaimer: I work with automotive industry. I own mainly historic cars. My newest is an Volvo S60, which I bought brand new from factory ordered to my specification in 2001. Now the repairs are eating me with 2.000 EUR to 3.000 EUR every f-ing year.
- radicalbyte 4y agoThe issue is the delta-time: there is only a competitive advantage to resale value once the repairable cars have hit the secondary market and start needing repairs. Then you're talking 7-10 years. Currently the demand on EVs is so high that good EVs hold their resale value even with poor repairability.
- rob74 4y agoThe market itself can fix it too - remember how online music consumption switched from DRM-infected files to "unencumbered" MP3 (or similar) downloads? Of course that was soon eclipsed by streaming, but even today you can still buy an album digitally and use it for as long as you like on as many devices as you like.
- boffinAudio 4y agoI specifically bought a Bonfire X electric motorbike, from Black Tea Motorbikes, because it is easy to repair and replace parts myself. Of course, it hasn't shipped yet - but because it is based on a standard frame (Honda CBR500), there are many options for spare parts and upgrades on the market. Its going to be very interesting to see how far we hackers get with electric vehicles. I've already got my OBD debugging gear ready to go .. IMHO, vendors who work on removing bespoke parts from their designs, are going to get the electric transportation business ..
- panick21_ 4y agoThey are targeting 'rich guys' as you call it because the amount of battery is limited and the margin is higher on those cars. And many of those people are just normal families with 1-2 people that earn a fair amount and can afford ID4 or Model 3 or something. And those people car about reliability. You act like only billionaires buy EVs.
- otikik 4y ago> And many of those people are just normal families with 1-2 people that earn a fair amount and can afford ID4 or Model 3 or something Your “normal” might not be that “normal”. > billionaires Change one letter.
- panick21_ 4y agoActually it is quite normal. Its not statistical avg based on income, but that's not what normal means in everyday live. If you saw a family in a Tesla Model 3 you wouldn't be like 'wow look at that'. You see it everyday. I can literally walk 10m from where I'm sitting and see like 5 Tesla driving by. Its a normal everyday thing.
- otikik 4y ago> that's not what normal means in everyday live. I don't mean to be offensive, but you might live in a bit of a bubble. I know this is Stack Overflow so people tend to assume that San Francisco (or other North American tech hubs) are "normal". They are quite the opposite, when compared with the rest of the world, and even with "the west" (however you define it). > If you saw a family in a Tesla Model 3 you wouldn't be like 'wow look at that'. You see it everyday. Teslas are infrequent enough for me (living in a first world European country) to point them out to my wife when we cross one on the highway (because she's not familiar with their shape/logo). I remember doing that at least once in the last two weeks.
- panick21_ 4y agoI'm in Europe, not in San Francisco. And you see lots of Tesla, ID3/ID4 and so on. Some EV are somewhat hard to spot, most people don't realize ID3 are EV when they see them. Also, 'this is Stack Overflow' what?