7 ms·

Why doesn't the US and other governments ban Bitcoin?

lapser 4y ago
Yes. The US, the country that thinks of themselves as the beacon of hope and freedom, should ban Bitcoin. FWIW, I wouldn't put it past the US govt to ban cryptocurrencies. It just would be extremely hypocritical. Something the US is pretty familiar with.
- game-of-throws 4y ago
  So far the only places to fully ban cryptocurrency (afaik) have been authoritarian countries like Russia[1] and China[2]. The US banning an emerging tech would not be a good look. [1]: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/07/15/vladimir-putin-bans-digital-payments-in-russia/ https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/07/15/vladimir-putin-ba... [2]: https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/09/24/china-s-makes-all-cryptocurrency-transactions-illegal-in-blow-to-bitcoin-and-others https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/09/24/china-s-makes-all-c...
LatteLazy 4y ago
Banning crypto (or drugs or gambling or alcohol or whatever) is one thing. Actually enforcing that ban is another.
- vangelis 4y ago
  You don't have to ban crypto. You could just ban exchanges. You can always exchange Bitcoin for cash and back, but that's a lot harder.
  - LatteLazy 4y ago
    That's the same game though: if I know a guy who can get me weed or whatever, I will know a guy who can get me bitcoin. And since there is no physical product or evidence it's actually much easier, my friend from Amsterdam will have a lot of trouble bringing me weed, he will have zero difficulty sending $100 worth of BTC to an address I give him. The idea that you can just ban things and they will go away should have died with alcohol prohibitions. I guess at least no one will get killed in a war on crypto...
    - vangelis 4y ago
      How does your friend from Amsterdam convert his crypto to Euros? The value of crypto more or less relies on there being an off-ramp to local currency. Also he should use Monero!
      - LatteLazy 4y ago
        I assume somewhere on earth exchange will remain legal (eg Amsterdam). So my friend just uses services legal to him locally. And even if it doesn't, your friendly local drug dealer, who may already be trading crypto to purchase product, will presumably offer exchange services. No one needs an exchange they can just charge a spread between people wanting to buy and those wanting to sell. That's how money change already works after all... And you're right about Monero!
  - sph 4y ago
    > You could just ban exchanges. US has tried the ban hammer both for alcohol and then for drugs, how has that worked out for them? That would just create a massive underground black market, this time even more pernicious because it's international, with state-level actors.
    - vangelis 4y ago
      Where does the clean money to exchange for crypto come from if there's no legitimate on-ramp and off-ramp? You could at least exchange drugs and alcohol for dirty fiat.
rufusroflpunch 4y ago
It's just game theory. If banning it won't kill it (and it won't in this case), then you need to embrace it or lose out. The best they can hope for is to control the on-ramps and off-ramps.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Banning the on and off ramps is effectively going to kill it.
  - sph 4y ago
    You need to ban all on and off ramps anywhere in the world. If you can't buy or sell USD with BTC, but you can with EUR, and you can convert USD to EUR, you're back at square one, and I would argue making USD weaker in the process. No sane US government would risk losing its economic hegemony in that fashion. Some say it's by design, but I think it's just because of how our global economy and the Internet itself works. It's fine to hate Bitcoin, but it's got this viral quality to it that it is not to be underestimated in the macroeconomic and political scale.
    - missedthecue 4y ago
      How much is Bitcoin worth if the only way you can buy is by meeting someone in an alley with cash? Surely something, but probably not $23k a coin and forget $60k a few months ago.
      - sph 4y ago
        Not everybody lives in the United States of America. Case in point: this article. If Iran can use Bitcoin to transfer wealth across borders, and can't convert it to (i.e. buy) USD, but can convert it to (i.e buy) EUR, the next decade in geopolitics will be very interesting.
        spywaregorilla 4y ago
jonathan-adly 4y ago
Because government officials are supposed to be working for the people? Does your barber want to ban Bitcoin? The school-teacher? The doctor? Nope. They either don't care or actually like it. Also, "banning" things in America is close to impossible due to the populace intense distrust of the government. You can't even ban AR-15s, imagine thinking its possible to ban a piece of software running on a raspberry-pi.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  >Also, "banning" things in America is close to impossible due to the populace intense distrust of the government. You can't even ban AR-15s, imagine thinking its possible to ban a piece of software running on a raspberry-pi. Things are banned all the time in the US, including pieces of software. See Tornado Cash for an extremely recent example.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    and suicide!
- vangelis 4y ago
  Yeah, like abortion or drugs.
rr808 4y ago
Possibly because it wasn't done with Bitcoin? Bitcoin is pretty bad for shady dealings because its open and everyone can see your transactions.
- bushbaba 4y ago
  Only if you know who owns the wallets and both parties reuse their wallets. You can then use a lawful nft sale on opensea to your “dirty” wallet to make the money look legitimate. With your defense being you merely sold the nft. You don’t know who the buyer is.
  - rr808 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure the US govt has tracked down the vast majority of who owns which wallets. If it doesn't know now it'll figure out some time in the future.
alfiedotwtf 4y ago
Transactions from your Bitcoin wallet can be worked out with a pen and paper, and then passed onto others by hand, entered into their Bitcoin node by typing in what's written down. By advocating banning Bitcoin, you just banned Free Speech. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy#Criminal_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy#Criminal_i...
- he_is_legend 4y ago
  I raise you DeCSS - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS
- nradov 4y ago
  US federal courts haven't interpreted it that way, and the precedent you cited isn't applicable. Financial transactions with sanctioned entities aren't entitled to First Amendment protections. The technical means are entirely irrelevant, regardless of whether the transaction is performed with paper or on a computer.
sph 4y ago
Good luck with banning an open technology.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
game-of-throws 4y ago
Iran uses USD as well. We can't ban everything that a country we don't like uses. There would be nothing left.
rvz 4y ago
The same reason why they haven't banned Tor. We both know they can't and they know they cannot. But they will focus and chase after the privacy coins instead. So perhaps it is time to accept and admit that some cryptocurrencies are here to stay and reject the delusion that is repeated here that all of them are going to be totally banned 100% entirely.

Yes. The US, the country that thinks of themselves as the beacon of hope and freedom, should ban Bitcoin. FWIW, I wouldn't put it past the US govt to ban cryptocurrencies. It just would be extremely hypocritical. Something the US is pretty familiar with.

game-of-throws 4y ago
So far the only places to fully ban cryptocurrency (afaik) have been authoritarian countries like Russia[1] and China[2]. The US banning an emerging tech would not be a good look. [1]: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/07/15/vladimir-putin-bans-digital-payments-in-russia/ https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/07/15/vladimir-putin-ba... [2]: https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/09/24/china-s-makes-all-cryptocurrency-transactions-illegal-in-blow-to-bitcoin-and-others https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/09/24/china-s-makes-all-c...

LatteLazy 4y ago

Banning crypto (or drugs or gambling or alcohol or whatever) is one thing. Actually enforcing that ban is another.

vangelis 4y ago
You don't have to ban crypto. You could just ban exchanges. You can always exchange Bitcoin for cash and back, but that's a lot harder.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  That's the same game though: if I know a guy who can get me weed or whatever, I will know a guy who can get me bitcoin. And since there is no physical product or evidence it's actually much easier, my friend from Amsterdam will have a lot of trouble bringing me weed, he will have zero difficulty sending $100 worth of BTC to an address I give him. The idea that you can just ban things and they will go away should have died with alcohol prohibitions. I guess at least no one will get killed in a war on crypto...
  - vangelis 4y ago
    How does your friend from Amsterdam convert his crypto to Euros? The value of crypto more or less relies on there being an off-ramp to local currency. Also he should use Monero!
    - LatteLazy 4y ago
      I assume somewhere on earth exchange will remain legal (eg Amsterdam). So my friend just uses services legal to him locally. And even if it doesn't, your friendly local drug dealer, who may already be trading crypto to purchase product, will presumably offer exchange services. No one needs an exchange they can just charge a spread between people wanting to buy and those wanting to sell. That's how money change already works after all... And you're right about Monero!
- sph 4y ago
  > You could just ban exchanges. US has tried the ban hammer both for alcohol and then for drugs, how has that worked out for them? That would just create a massive underground black market, this time even more pernicious because it's international, with state-level actors.
  - vangelis 4y ago
    Where does the clean money to exchange for crypto come from if there's no legitimate on-ramp and off-ramp? You could at least exchange drugs and alcohol for dirty fiat.

rufusroflpunch 4y ago

It's just game theory. If banning it won't kill it (and it won't in this case), then you need to embrace it or lose out. The best they can hope for is to control the on-ramps and off-ramps.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
Banning the on and off ramps is effectively going to kill it.
- sph 4y ago
  You need to ban all on and off ramps anywhere in the world. If you can't buy or sell USD with BTC, but you can with EUR, and you can convert USD to EUR, you're back at square one, and I would argue making USD weaker in the process. No sane US government would risk losing its economic hegemony in that fashion. Some say it's by design, but I think it's just because of how our global economy and the Internet itself works. It's fine to hate Bitcoin, but it's got this viral quality to it that it is not to be underestimated in the macroeconomic and political scale.
  - missedthecue 4y ago
    How much is Bitcoin worth if the only way you can buy is by meeting someone in an alley with cash? Surely something, but probably not $23k a coin and forget $60k a few months ago.
    - sph 4y ago
      Not everybody lives in the United States of America. Case in point: this article. If Iran can use Bitcoin to transfer wealth across borders, and can't convert it to (i.e. buy) USD, but can convert it to (i.e buy) EUR, the next decade in geopolitics will be very interesting.
      - spywaregorilla 4y ago

jonathan-adly 4y ago

Because government officials are supposed to be working for the people? Does your barber want to ban Bitcoin? The school-teacher? The doctor? Nope. They either don't care or actually like it. Also, "banning" things in America is close to impossible due to the populace intense distrust of the government. You can't even ban AR-15s, imagine thinking its possible to ban a piece of software running on a raspberry-pi.

ziddoap 4y ago
>Also, "banning" things in America is close to impossible due to the populace intense distrust of the government. You can't even ban AR-15s, imagine thinking its possible to ban a piece of software running on a raspberry-pi. Things are banned all the time in the US, including pieces of software. See Tornado Cash for an extremely recent example.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  and suicide!
vangelis 4y ago
Yeah, like abortion or drugs.

rr808 4y ago

Possibly because it wasn't done with Bitcoin? Bitcoin is pretty bad for shady dealings because its open and everyone can see your transactions.

bushbaba 4y ago
Only if you know who owns the wallets and both parties reuse their wallets. You can then use a lawful nft sale on opensea to your “dirty” wallet to make the money look legitimate. With your defense being you merely sold the nft. You don’t know who the buyer is.
- rr808 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure the US govt has tracked down the vast majority of who owns which wallets. If it doesn't know now it'll figure out some time in the future.

alfiedotwtf 4y ago

Transactions from your Bitcoin wallet can be worked out with a pen and paper, and then passed onto others by hand, entered into their Bitcoin node by typing in what's written down. By advocating banning Bitcoin, you just banned Free Speech. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy#Criminal_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy#Criminal_i...

he_is_legend 4y ago
I raise you DeCSS - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS
nradov 4y ago
US federal courts haven't interpreted it that way, and the precedent you cited isn't applicable. Financial transactions with sanctioned entities aren't entitled to First Amendment protections. The technical means are entirely irrelevant, regardless of whether the transaction is performed with paper or on a computer.

sph 4y ago

Good luck with banning an open technology.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

game-of-throws 4y ago

Iran uses USD as well. We can't ban everything that a country we don't like uses. There would be nothing left.

rvz 4y ago

The same reason why they haven't banned Tor. We both know they can't and they know they cannot. But they will focus and chase after the privacy coins instead. So perhaps it is time to accept and admit that some cryptocurrencies are here to stay and reject the delusion that is repeated here that all of them are going to be totally banned 100% entirely.