4 ms·

>So I'm faced with having to log out and power off every day When did this become a chore? I do this as standard and imo all people should. SSD Boot times thes

by alt227 4y ago

>So I'm faced with having to log out and power off every day When did this become a chore? I do this as standard and imo all people should. SSD Boot times these days are mostly under a minute and you get a fresh desktop every time. EDIT: In fact I am one of the sysadmins which so many seem to despise on here. I have hybrid sleep and fast startup disabled by group policy on all my windows domain networks. It reduces so many support tickets by just actually having machines properly rebooted every night. Without this, people contact IT for glitches and bugs in their system, and when you look at the system uptime it is years!

sovnade 4y ago
Because I have visual studio open, a solution loaded and organized with all the files I need for this sprint, SSMS with the servers all connected that I need, all my tabs open to see my jira board, support tickets, etc, a notepad doc i was using to take notes on a phone call, my ssh key loaded into pageant, and if my computer reboots, i'm going to forget half of that when it starts back up and lose 30+ minutes trying to get set up again the next day. edit: i would legitimately quit a company that made me reboot every single night.
- alt227 4y ago
  In our network there are no developers. That would be a different usecase which would require different policies. All tools required by staff are online and autosave everything. This in fact is another reason why proper restarts are enforced nightly, as most browsers with multiple tabs of heavy web apps start misbehaving very quickly. Forcing a nightly shutdown of browsers is an added bonus of proper shutdowns. Be aware I am in a corporate environment, with all non technical users, and all services online.
  - sovnade 4y ago
    Ok - that makes sense. Obviously being on the dev side of things, I've never worked for a company that didn't have devs (and admins, devops, etc). Sounds like it definitely works in your case.
aeyes 4y ago
> I have hybrid sleep and fast startup disabled by group policy I guess I'll have to add this to my questions to ask at job interviews. Admins like you these days sure try to make our lives as horrible as possible. Corporate anti-virus, DNS interception and policies like these turn my machine into something I constantly want to throw out the window. All because you are too lazy to ask a person to reboot if the machine has high uptime.
- alt227 4y ago
  Youve taken a lot of liberties and assumptions with my post here. I dont do any of those things you mentioned, only enforce a nightly shutdown. Nothing to do with laziness. As other people have often mentioned on HN, in the real world of understaffed underbudget corporate IT you need to do what you can to enforce things which make everybodies life easier.
  - adament 4y ago
    It does not make everybodys lives easier, it makes your life easier by easing the support burden at the cost of making the lives of those who have to live with those policies (marginally?) harder (or more annoying). It is quite a bold claim that those of us who do not shut down our laptops every night have no reason to do so, and you know better than us that it would come with no additional cost to us to do so. It might very well be that it is preferable to the organization as a whole to sacrifice a bit of productivity everywhere for less burden on IT. But IMHO it should not be a decision which the IT department can make in isolation.
    - Godel_unicode 4y ago
      This is the part that people get wrong about all the ITIL metrics nonsense; they’re all designed by people who don’t have a background in science or experimentation and they never account for confounding factors. For instance, companies I’ve worked for in the past actually conducted rigorous studies of improving quality of life (as opposed to “fewer tickets==good”). They discovered that the number one cause of lower ticket volumes is Shadow IT! Because of course it is. If you are disabling things by policy, it should be after a discourse with your users and a serious attempt at training. Being a GPO dictator is an anti-pattern.
Delk 4y ago
I don't care about boot times but I do care about keeping state. In addition to the obvious browser I typically have an IDE, a few terminal windows, email, a few communication clients (due to internal and customer choices, not mine), and usually one or two database clients open at most times. Some of those restore their state nicely while others don't. Some of the terminal windows have e.g. a particular set of terminals at certain directories because I need to keep track of and work on multiple source repos at the same time. Starting all of those from scratch every day would indeed be a chore. Perhaps more importantly, having my desktop be the way I left it also automatically reminds me what I was doing and helps continue from where I was. A fresh desktop every morning would be a misfeature for me and would annoy and frustrate me immensely if forced on me. I do of course reboot now and then for system updates etc., and I don't mind that. There might be a decent rationale for forcing a reboot or disabling sleep on non-tech office devices if the staff are technically unskilled, but this is HN, so it's not much of a surprise if people aren't keen.
- kibwen 4y ago
  Seconded. My working state is crucial and keeps me on track. For someone with ADD, needing to overcome the inertia of setting up all my apps just the way I left them every single day would be catastrophic for my productivity. I refuse to reboot more than once a month, and only then if an OS update requires it. The year is $CURRENT_YEAR, needing to reboot a system should be regarded as a last resort and a relic of the past. No matter how much effort you dump into making apps remember their state when they're closed, it will always be strictly inferior to just dumping RAM to disk.
Aerroon 4y ago
Because it's not just system boot time that matters. After you do that you then have to launch half a dozen to a dozen applications that all have varying startup times, that will all randomly draw focus during their startup, and some will require you to do logins during all of that.
tasuki 4y ago
> When did this become a chore? I do this as standard and imo all people should. Why should I? Not long ago, my laptop had uptime of over half a year. [Edit: Oh, "windows domain networks"? I guess perhaps that explains your propensity for rebooting?]
hedora 4y ago
I treat each laptop reboot (regardless of reason) as an unexpected crash. If the laptop crashes more than once a week, I simply won't use it. If I worked at your company, I'd just BYOD, and keep your garbage laptop in a drawer, only booting for compliancy crap (and certainly not leaving it on long enough to download updates). I've actually done this at a previous job or two. It was fine. Both (large behemoth) companies ended up cratering, at least partially due to chasing away competent employees with boneheaded corporate policies.
- sdoering 4y ago
  I would. If there wasn't the teeny bit of SSO that means I can't access any relevant work software on a non endpoint managed machine. Office? Gitlab? Jira? Confluence? Any code at all? Adobe Experience Cloud? Any Google Service? Adobe Creative Cloud? Our Time and Expenses Tooling? All locked behind SSO with EPM enforced. Additionally nearly all internal resources are only accessible via VPN. And guess what - only usable on EPM devices. When I started I received a device, SDD encrypted me being root. After being acquired by big corp we now are in compliance world. Parts of that would have come regardless of big corp due to client requirements. But a lot of this is quite taxing.

by alt227 4y ago

sovnade 4y ago

Because I have visual studio open, a solution loaded and organized with all the files I need for this sprint, SSMS with the servers all connected that I need, all my tabs open to see my jira board, support tickets, etc, a notepad doc i was using to take notes on a phone call, my ssh key loaded into pageant, and if my computer reboots, i'm going to forget half of that when it starts back up and lose 30+ minutes trying to get set up again the next day. edit: i would legitimately quit a company that made me reboot every single night.

alt227 4y ago
In our network there are no developers. That would be a different usecase which would require different policies. All tools required by staff are online and autosave everything. This in fact is another reason why proper restarts are enforced nightly, as most browsers with multiple tabs of heavy web apps start misbehaving very quickly. Forcing a nightly shutdown of browsers is an added bonus of proper shutdowns. Be aware I am in a corporate environment, with all non technical users, and all services online.
- sovnade 4y ago
  Ok - that makes sense. Obviously being on the dev side of things, I've never worked for a company that didn't have devs (and admins, devops, etc). Sounds like it definitely works in your case.

aeyes 4y ago

> I have hybrid sleep and fast startup disabled by group policy I guess I'll have to add this to my questions to ask at job interviews. Admins like you these days sure try to make our lives as horrible as possible. Corporate anti-virus, DNS interception and policies like these turn my machine into something I constantly want to throw out the window. All because you are too lazy to ask a person to reboot if the machine has high uptime.

alt227 4y ago
Youve taken a lot of liberties and assumptions with my post here. I dont do any of those things you mentioned, only enforce a nightly shutdown. Nothing to do with laziness. As other people have often mentioned on HN, in the real world of understaffed underbudget corporate IT you need to do what you can to enforce things which make everybodies life easier.
- adament 4y ago
  It does not make everybodys lives easier, it makes your life easier by easing the support burden at the cost of making the lives of those who have to live with those policies (marginally?) harder (or more annoying). It is quite a bold claim that those of us who do not shut down our laptops every night have no reason to do so, and you know better than us that it would come with no additional cost to us to do so. It might very well be that it is preferable to the organization as a whole to sacrifice a bit of productivity everywhere for less burden on IT. But IMHO it should not be a decision which the IT department can make in isolation.
  - Godel_unicode 4y ago
    This is the part that people get wrong about all the ITIL metrics nonsense; they’re all designed by people who don’t have a background in science or experimentation and they never account for confounding factors. For instance, companies I’ve worked for in the past actually conducted rigorous studies of improving quality of life (as opposed to “fewer tickets==good”). They discovered that the number one cause of lower ticket volumes is Shadow IT! Because of course it is. If you are disabling things by policy, it should be after a discourse with your users and a serious attempt at training. Being a GPO dictator is an anti-pattern.

Delk 4y ago

I don't care about boot times but I do care about keeping state. In addition to the obvious browser I typically have an IDE, a few terminal windows, email, a few communication clients (due to internal and customer choices, not mine), and usually one or two database clients open at most times. Some of those restore their state nicely while others don't. Some of the terminal windows have e.g. a particular set of terminals at certain directories because I need to keep track of and work on multiple source repos at the same time. Starting all of those from scratch every day would indeed be a chore. Perhaps more importantly, having my desktop be the way I left it also automatically reminds me what I was doing and helps continue from where I was. A fresh desktop every morning would be a misfeature for me and would annoy and frustrate me immensely if forced on me. I do of course reboot now and then for system updates etc., and I don't mind that. There might be a decent rationale for forcing a reboot or disabling sleep on non-tech office devices if the staff are technically unskilled, but this is HN, so it's not much of a surprise if people aren't keen.

kibwen 4y ago
Seconded. My working state is crucial and keeps me on track. For someone with ADD, needing to overcome the inertia of setting up all my apps just the way I left them every single day would be catastrophic for my productivity. I refuse to reboot more than once a month, and only then if an OS update requires it. The year is $CURRENT_YEAR, needing to reboot a system should be regarded as a last resort and a relic of the past. No matter how much effort you dump into making apps remember their state when they're closed, it will always be strictly inferior to just dumping RAM to disk.

Aerroon 4y ago

Because it's not just system boot time that matters. After you do that you then have to launch half a dozen to a dozen applications that all have varying startup times, that will all randomly draw focus during their startup, and some will require you to do logins during all of that.

tasuki 4y ago

> When did this become a chore? I do this as standard and imo all people should. Why should I? Not long ago, my laptop had uptime of over half a year. [Edit: Oh, "windows domain networks"? I guess perhaps that explains your propensity for rebooting?]

hedora 4y ago

I treat each laptop reboot (regardless of reason) as an unexpected crash. If the laptop crashes more than once a week, I simply won't use it. If I worked at your company, I'd just BYOD, and keep your garbage laptop in a drawer, only booting for compliancy crap (and certainly not leaving it on long enough to download updates). I've actually done this at a previous job or two. It was fine. Both (large behemoth) companies ended up cratering, at least partially due to chasing away competent employees with boneheaded corporate policies.

sdoering 4y ago
I would. If there wasn't the teeny bit of SSO that means I can't access any relevant work software on a non endpoint managed machine. Office? Gitlab? Jira? Confluence? Any code at all? Adobe Experience Cloud? Any Google Service? Adobe Creative Cloud? Our Time and Expenses Tooling? All locked behind SSO with EPM enforced. Additionally nearly all internal resources are only accessible via VPN. And guess what - only usable on EPM devices. When I started I received a device, SDD encrypted me being root. After being acquired by big corp we now are in compliance world. Parts of that would have come regardless of big corp due to client requirements. But a lot of this is quite taxing.