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In a laptop, I care far more about battery life and the fan noise. However, Intel 12th gen is only able to pull these impressive performance feats due to very h
by SpacePortKnight 4y ago
In a laptop, I care far more about battery life and the fan noise. However, Intel 12th gen is only able to pull these impressive performance feats due to very high turbo boost clocks.
It's not that Intel is bad, it's still pretty great but in the age of M1 I wish Intel released a processor with similar power consumption.
I use my Intel i5-1240p with turbo boost disabled when on battery. Here's the geekbench with TB disabled. https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16497299 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16497299
- sroussey 4y agoOuch
- augustl 4y agoHow is 12th gen compared to 10th gen, in your experience? My XPS 13 on a 10th gen i7 just becomes absolute syrup on battery, even if I put it in high performance mode.
- okasaki 4y agoI have an XPS 17 with 12th gen and it drains around 50% battery per hour on a zoom call. edit: My laptop has a i7-12700H, which uses more power than the cpu in the framework laptop. More thoughts: The laptop is pretty much always plugged in. When I'm out I carry a little 60W charger with me. However for other reasons I wouldn't recommend the XPS 17. I have a Lenovo legion 7 at home that I'm more happy with (cheaper, better performance, lots of ports, etc)
- 867-5309 4y agothe one with a 17" 4K HDR touchscreen and RTX 3000 series? they will deplete the battery far quicker than the processor
- augustl 4y agoThanks for the real-world numbers! This is good for my emotional state, as I've switched from Windows to a MB Pro solely because of the battery life and performance of the M1 Pro chip.
- indemnity 4y agoI had similar numbers on my i9 MBP. Last week, on my M1 MBP, I spent an hour in a Teams (Electron!) call while off power and battery went from 99% to 96%. Intel needs to match that to even be in the game for portables IMO.
- spaceman_2020 4y agoThe M1/M2 laptops are so above and beyond anything from AMD and Intel that it’s almost a joke. If Apple was really smart and had enough supply, it could drop the price down a couple of hundred dollars and completely take over the laptop market.
- Galaxeblaffer 4y agoIt's already way cheaper than comparable windows machines
- eertami 4y agoPrice isn't the thing that keeps most people I know away from Macbooks (after all, it's the employers/business expense). I'm sure many people would like an M1 machine for the efficiency but the software is simply not ideal. If they invested in contributing Linux drivers they'd probably be able to takeover the market for developers. Asahi is slowly improving, but it doesn't feel ready yet to be someone's sole daily machine. Ultimately my M1 MBP sits on the shelf collecting dust, except for occasional testing. My smaller and lighter Intel laptop already gets 8 hours of battery life which is more than enough for me, and has perfect Linux support.
- brailsafe 4y agoI suppose you mostly know ppl who run linux as their primary os then? Certainly in web dev all macs have been extremely popular.
- varispeed 4y agoAs someone who uses Linux daily and generally dislikes macOS, I got all my Linux tools up and running on macOS, Docker runs well and many Linux things I run on an external cluster. So I am content. The macOS UI is bit annoying and the fact that you have to install tiny apps like to have a separate trackpad and mouse scrolling direction is not ideal, but yeah it's all dwarfed by the fact I finally can't hear any fans and performance is just as good as plugged in. I can't remember when I last time had a laptop on a sofa without having to worry about the charger and getting laps uncomfortably hot.
- csomar 4y agoI also have the XPS 17 with i7-12700H and 4K screen. I'm able to get 8-10 hours of work (compiling Rust, several docker containers on the run, at least a dozens tabs, etc...). I'm on ArchLinux with a window manager and no desktop whatsoever. I also disabled the GPU. I wonder if there is something draining your battery on the background.
- liminal 4y agoZoom battery usage per hour should be a standard metric. Nothing kills a battery faster.
- pedrocr 4y agoThe AMD offerings are much closer to M1 although they're not yet on TSMC 5nm so they don't quite match it. It's a historic event. Intel was #1 in laptops for an eternity. Even when the Pentium 4 was being outclassed by AMD Intel still kept the crown in mobile. This time around they first got overtaken by AMD and then by Apple and are now #3. Puts into perspective how huge of a miss their process node fail was.
- ant6n 4y agoLet’s remember AMD was absolute garbage for like 10 years until around 2016, when they finally bounced back. And they were getting closer and closer to bankruptcy, having to flog the silver - their fabs and even their campus. I’d say the Zen design and tsmc saved them (or Lisa Su and Keller). Intel is in a better position financially than AMD was, and could catch up again. I tend to think it depends a lot on the organization and the people.
- tester756 4y agoJim Keller? IC: A few people consider you 'The Father of Zen', do you think you’d scribe to that position? Or should that go to somebody else? JK: Perhaps one of the uncles. There were a lot of really great people on Zen. There was a methodology team that was worldwide, the SoC team was partly in Austin and partly in India, the floating-point cache was done in Colorado, the core execution front end was in Austin, the Arm front end was in Sunnyvale, and we had good technical leaders. I was in daily communication for a while with Suzanne Plummer and Steve Hale, who kind of built the front end of the Zen core, and the Colorado team. It was really good people. Mike Clark's a great architect, so we had a lot of fun, and success. Success has a lot of authors - failure has one. So that was a success. Then some teams stepped up - we moved Excavator to the Boston team, where they took over finishing the design and the physical stuff, Harry Fair and his guys did a great job on that. So there were some fairly stressful organizational changes that we did, going through that. The team all came together, so I think there was a lot of camaraderie in it. So I won't claim to be the ‘father’ - I was brought in, you know, as the instigator and the chief nudge, but part architect part transformational leader. That was fun.
- nrp 4y agoNote that Cinebench R23 (the main CPU benchmark we use) runs for 10 minutes, so it’s a measure of sustained performance. Boost (PL2) is typically 30 seconds or less with a long period after that of staying at the PL1 limit.
- senttoschool 4y agoAlso note that Cinebench R23 is a terrible general purpose CPU benchmark. It uses Intel Embree engine which is hand optimized for x86. It heavily favors CPUs with many slow cores even though most people will benefit from CPUs with fewer, faster cores. Cinebench is a great benchmark if you use Cinema4D, which I asumme 99.99% of the people buying these laptops won't use. Cinema4D is a niche of a niche. Geekbench is far more representative of what kind of performance you can expect from a CPU. https://reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/pitid6/eli5_why_does_it_seem_like_cinebench_is_now_the/ https://reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/pitid6/eli5_why_does_...
- senttoschool 4y agoTo clarify, Cinebench correlates poorly with gaming, office software, web browsing, and video editing. Those are what the vast majority of people buying laptops will use it for. For people that code, it also correlates poorly with parallel code compilation.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoAnandtech benchmark puts Intel 12900K on top for both RISCV toolchain compilation and Cinebench.
- senttoschool 4y ago12900K is the fastest x86 DIY CPU available. It'll be tops in nearly all benchmarks and applications. You can say the same about gaming. It's tops in Cinebench and most games. Therefore Cinebench and gaming must have a high correlation? No.
- 4y ago
- nabakin 4y ago> However, Intel 12th gen is only able to pull these impressive performance feats due to very high turbo boost clocks. Don't forget 12th gen Intel CPUs have a lot more cores than 11th gen Intel CPUs. That's where the significant benchmark improvements are coming from. Unfortunately though, these often don't reflect the real world use case. Having more cores isn't going to improve the day-to-day performance very much. The new efficiency cores probably improve battery life though
- xzjis 4y agoMaybe the new efficiency cores improve battery life over the 11th gen Intel CPUs but they're still far from the battery life of AMD or Apple silicon CPUs
- nabakin 4y agoFor sure.
- whazor 4y agoI believe Intel 12th gen is not properly tweaked yet, currently the benchmarks show that the battery performance is worse with 12th gen than 12th gen. But if you 'limit' the chip and force the usage of the efficiency cores then you should be able to beat 11th gen.
- nabakin 4y agoGood to know ty!
- sdoering 4y agoI agree, but than you have corporate compliance installing an insane amount of Spyware on your device so that a 2021 XPS 13 Dell with a gen 10 Intel is out of battery when only using word within the hour. Fans spinning all the time and no way of disabling this madness. Nearly the same for my Mac colleagues. They maybe get 2 hours out of their M1 MBPs unplugged.
- mgoetzke 4y agoI am writing this from a M1 MBP with screen at extra full brightness (using vivid) and I can say I get way more than 2 hours from it.
- antihero 4y agoHow much corporate garbage on it, though?
- speedgoose 4y ago2 hours on a M1 is beyond corporate garbage. It's like they try to use as much power as possible, perhaps more than one process is stuck in an infinite loop.
- Torifyme12 4y agoSounds like a shit EDR that's constantly scanning every file
- sdoering 4y agoFirst tool all files every hour. Virus scan on file change. Second tool scans also but I don't yet know the frequency.
- brailsafe 4y agoOut of curiosity, and aside from Teams which I'm already sadly familiar with, what software is it that you're talking about? Company I work for was just bought by some megacorp, but I'm still using my own 2019 13" MBP for now.
- pcai 4y agoWe all wish intel could release a processor with similar power consumption to the m1, but it's not like they just overlooked battery life. x86 is just fundamentally not competitive with arm on that front, unfortunately. The only advantage it seems to have from an architecture standpoint is raw performance
- cowtools 4y agoThey have the "intel atom" brand for low-power CPUs
- schaefer 4y agoThe wild thing is, your benchmarks with turbo boost disabled (GB5 single: 617 / multi: 5163) almost identically match the benchmarks on levono's new ARM laptop[1], the Thinkpad x13s (GB5 single: 1118 / multi: 5776). True, Windows on ARM will likely keep on being a pain for some time, but linux support seems to be coming[2], and for those of us that target Linux ARM development anyways, this is one of the first performant alternatives to post-arm Macbooks. Plus it has the killer feature: no fan, long lived battery life. Another interesting ARM system is Nvidia's Jetson AGX Orin DevKit, which clocks in at (GB5: single: 763 / multi: 7193) [3]. That system is linux native right now, but of course isn't a laptop form factor. [1]: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/15575694 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/15575694 [2]: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-5.20-SoCs-8cx-Gen3-Arm https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-5.20-SoCs-8cx-Gen3-Arm [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrZt90c_-C8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrZt90c_-C8 (sorry for the video link)
- localhost 4y agoIf I'm not misreading what you wrote about the x13s, isn't it 2x the perf of the turbo-boost disabled i5-1240P in single core? That's a lot! EDIT: Also confirmed that WSL2 runs natively on Win11 ARM. So you can have an optimized full Linux kernel running on the Thinkpad as well.
- sudosysgen 4y agoI mean, yeah, laptop CPUs will some times go like 3x slower without Turbo Boost. As others wrote, you can tune for battery life and keep it on.
- jvanderbot 4y agoYou can usually use the "Xtreme Tuning Utility" (by Intel) to scale down without disabling turbo boost. I use it to scale my ~4.8 Ghz cores to 3.2 Ghz, so they can run without fans on my small form factor PC. 3.2 Ghz x 8 is enough to run most my favorite games. Without TB, I'm down to 8x 2.4, which is a bit sluggish.
- wtallis 4y agoYou may get better results by leaving the clock speed settings alone and adjusting the long-term power limits to an acceptable level. That way you won't sacrifice peak performance (ie. latency, especially with only one or two cores in use) but will still get most of the power savings.
- muttled 4y agoI'll echo the concern about the turboboost really helping at times. Often, you have a single-threaded process running that benefits from a single core running at a higher clock rate for a short period of time and improves the experience tremendously.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- stainablesteel 4y agointel's comet lake or whatever is pretty comparable to M1 imo
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoSame. I prefer that the manufacturer dictates to me how I use my end user Apple device as long as it has marginally better battery life.
- princevegeta89 4y agoTested an i7 1260p recently and it ran like a beast. What's interesting is they have a discrete GPU now which is the Intel Arc that should take a lot of the load off the CPU.
- hinkley 4y agoAs do I. Meanwhile in a server, I'm starting to worry that as I work to flush performance issues out of the system, especially latency problems, that I won't see the sort of perf numbers I'm expecting because the fact that the machines are running well below 50% CPU utilization are likely to dogleg the moment it hits the thermal limits, and I have no way to predict that, short of maybe collecting CPU temperature telemetry. Not only might my changes not translate into 1:1 or even 1.2:1 gains, they might be zero gains and or just raise the CPU utilization. Magical CPU utilization also takes away one of the useful metrics for autoscaling servers. Thermal throttling opens the door to outsized fishtailing scenarios.
- asdff 4y agoWhat's wrong with fan noise? throw on headphones. If anything I wish my fans would go louder and harder. Nothing I hate more than a throttling laptop.