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I am going to get a lot of flak for this. But the more I read things like these, the more I feel marriage is not for everyone and society has a whole should sto

I am going to get a lot of flak for this. But the more I read things like these, the more I feel marriage is not for everyone and society has a whole should stop gushing down this concept to next generation. Personally I feel, If you have to write a note to your spouse everyday to "save your marriage", then you probably didnt have one to begin with.

ars 4y ago
This is simply a tip that has worked for this person, and could work for others. It doesn't have to work for everyone to be useful. Also, I feel like far too many people have "holywood" views on what marriage is.
draw_down 4y ago
V-eHGsd_ 4y ago
i think you're missing the point. it's not that you have to write a note to your spouse to save your marriage. the act of writing forces you to think and evaluate, and those acts of reflection, and 'public' appreciation, help keep the small problems from becoming the big problems. like in karate kid, "wax on, wax off" is not about the wax. but, you're right, marriage isn't for everyone. but i also don't think TFA is trying to convince everyone to get married.
bentona 4y ago
I would frame it differently. There seem to be many dysfunctional marriages that are carried by e.g. inertia - and because of this, I do agree that perhaps marriage shouldn't be taken as such an assumption. By the same token, though, those that _do_ choose to engage in marriage should accept the responsibility and the (apparently, I am not married) large amount of effort it takes to make it successful. I'm choosing to look at this tactic as embracing that effort, and striving for an excellent marriage, instead of the "passable" marriage which seems to be the norm today.
namecheapTA 4y ago
Marriage isn't perfect, especially not with today's divorce law and family court system, but the idea of joining into a union with a new person and creating a new family unit, even if without kids, is probably the best system for most people. Single people have a way of going feral IMO.
- zwirbl 4y ago
  What's bad about divorce laws? People's view on divorce and divorce laws of the past seems to be much more awful
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Being in a relationship opens yourself up to a huge amount of financial risk which can last a very long time after the breakup/divorce. In most countries you are exposed to this risk even if you don't marry as you automatically enter a de facto which is pretty legally similar to a full marriage. This all made sense when you had a man working and a woman at home looking after the house and kids, but in a modern society where both work and responsibilities are mostly shared, it doesn't make sense that the person who earned the most is now at huge risk despite the relationship not reducing the others earning potential in any way. This risk is a real discouragement to even enter a relationship. You might be open to the emotional risk of things not working out but not be willing to put your house and future income on the line.
    - zwirbl 4y ago
      If that's your outlook on marriage you shouldn't marry in the first place, divorce laws or not, as it is a long term commitment with, of course, risks involved. > In most countries you are exposed to this risk even if you don't marry as you automatically enter a de facto which is pretty legally similar to a full marriage. From only being in a relationship or from living together, spending together, having kids together? I'm pretty sure there is no such thing in the EU country I reside in. Relationships aren't for everyone, especially when thinking about relationships like a business
    - 4y ago
smegma2 4y ago
Did you consider that your comment sounds a little mean towards the author?
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Hopefully the author is sensible enough to not be hurt by the most mild disagreement to the article point.
xupybd 4y ago
Marriage takes work, lots of work. The reward in my experience is totally worth it. You have to lay down part of your life for the new life that you experience with your spouse and children. The individual you once were is now part of a family and no longer exists as an individual. You serve your family and they serve you back. For me the amount I give of myself is much less than I receive back from the marriage / family. I would argue the amount everyone involved receives is more than the sum total they put in. If writing a note each day is too much work for you, then the daily sacrifices of being in a loving marriage may be too much for you. If that is the case you might want to think about what you're giving up and why. If you are happy with the exchange then great but I think many don't know how great it can be.
- NotTameAntelope 4y ago
  Eh, it doesn’t feel like work for me. I really enjoy my partner, she enjoys me, and I don’t think we have to do very much “work” to maintain that. If I started writing literal daily notes to my wife, she’d be very concerned something was wrong. Then she’d ask why I’m wasting my time writing a note when I could have done… literally annoying else more productive lol
  - xupybd 4y ago
    To me this sounds similar to the old saying "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life" I've found this to simply mean that you enjoy the work you put in. Gamers can spend hours getting good at a game. Few would call it practice, they'd call it play. However, whatever you call it you need it to get good. Whatever that thing is that you put into a relationship, it's needed.
  - skrebbel 4y ago
    No kids I take it?
    - exitb 4y ago
      These are separate things, I suppose. One can live a very challenging life, including the usual (or unusual...) kids trouble, and still find comfort in the relationship with their spouse.
throwaway892238 4y ago
Modern generations have been influenced by the Romantics, who, amongst other things, put forward the idea that self-sacrificing marriage is actually less noble than purely passionate love. This evolved into the notion that a marriage requires consistent passion, and that if you don't have it, something is wrong. But it turns out that marriage is really just a partnership and relationship, and all different kinds of people have different styles and interpretations of what that is and how it works for them. Some people need a lot of passion, some people need a lot of stability, some may need both, or neither. But there is definitely something to the notion that good relationships don't come easy. People are all flawed in different ways, and sometimes people need help to work through those flaws in order to have successful relationships. Plus, a marriage may involve some long term expensive investments, like a mortgage, pets, children. So "saving your marriage" might actually be quite a rational and emotionally intelligent act, if all partners are amenable to it. Best-case scenario: you end up with a long-term loving partnership and a wonderful life; worst-case, you don't. Seems like it's worth saving?
lbrito 4y ago
>marriage is not for everyone For quite a long time this was a very obvious and common sense statement. That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage, for example. Things changed only very recently.
- zwirbl 4y ago
  > That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage Can you elaborate on that? Living as an unmarried couple is not very catholic AFAICT, and when not in a relationship, how should you marry?
  - lbrito 4y ago
    Yes, needless to say an unmarried couple is not what I was referring to. I'm saying that for a long time people have known that not everyone is cut out for marriage, and that it has never really been seen as "the only path". I don't understand your other remarks.
    - zwirbl 4y ago
      So it's "the only path" if in a relationship, with the alternatives being living in sin or not having a relationship. That is really very traditional Catholicism
      - irrational 4y ago
        I think they may be referring to the celibate life of a priest/monk/nun. Maybe.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      but then what has changed?
  - michaelt 4y ago
    Check out 1 Corinthians 7:25-39 [1] I've heard there was a time, ~2000 years ago, when people thought the second coming of christ was so close they were only being asked to be celibate for a year or two, and marriage was only there for people who couldn't manage that. [1] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+7&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians...
haliskerbas 4y ago
Completely agree. I’m convinced that the get married have kids, raise them well, they become good workers, if you time it right we are all corporate drones as a happy family - dream is pretty horrible. I want to work to not have to work anymore. I can’t think about a partner because I’m too dead from work to give someone else the commitment they might deserve. Don’t want kids that sounds like work. Nothing is wrong with me just want to be able to relax without commitment.
- insightcheck 4y ago
  Would it be possible to change jobs/companies? Not all work is so draining that you can't have time for yourself, and many respect time boundaries. Hope you can one day make a living in a better environment.
- em-bee 4y ago
  having a partner may help you relax, and it may change your attitude to work. i felt pretty dead too from work, then coming home to be alone. when i got married i felt better about working because family life would balance it out and i had something to look forward to while at the office.
swatcoder 4y ago
Some relationships work by being easy. Some work by being well suited to partner on a big and delicate project, like raising a family. The person you’d most love to raise a family with (or run a fishing boat with, or whatever), isn’t necessarily the “easy” partner whose super cozy and gets you all the time and never needs you to make a special effort beyond what comes naturally. But at some point, if it’s what you want to do, you pick a partner for what’s important to you and make good on that choice. Depending on who you are and who you picked, that latter bit of “making good” might benefit from a few contrived gestures and rituals that wouldn’t have been necessary in some other “easy” relationship. But that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong relationship or an unhealthy relationship, it’s just your relationship; and if those things make it better, why wouldn’t you do them?
tbossanova 4y ago
I agree 100%. Marriage works for some, but we shouldn’t assume it works for all. People should be encouraged to seek the model that works for them best. That said, if you have a relationship that works, it’s definitely worth putting time into it in some way.
Gatsky 4y ago
This is very much a fair-weather first-third-of-life perspective. I see quite a lot of elderly people with health problems. The ones that are completely alone… it’s a pretty wretched existence, frankly. That’s the reality. Not to say all marriages are great obviously, but often even an ex-husband is better than no husband at all.
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  Agree completely. What I find truly weird is when Gen Z commenters in the west say “society”. Do they really believe marriage is some modern, western, or Christian invention? When they push forward as social animals with no social support network and things eventually take their toll (age/entropy/etc) they will fall back on someone else’s marriage for help - their parents or siblings. I say this as a late 30’s person with no marriage. I thought I had one and it didn’t work out unfortunately. Now it’s just me and I am in true shit if really anything remotely severe goes wrong.

ars 4y ago

This is simply a tip that has worked for this person, and could work for others. It doesn't have to work for everyone to be useful. Also, I feel like far too many people have "holywood" views on what marriage is.

draw_down 4y ago

V-eHGsd_ 4y ago

i think you're missing the point. it's not that you have to write a note to your spouse to save your marriage. the act of writing forces you to think and evaluate, and those acts of reflection, and 'public' appreciation, help keep the small problems from becoming the big problems. like in karate kid, "wax on, wax off" is not about the wax. but, you're right, marriage isn't for everyone. but i also don't think TFA is trying to convince everyone to get married.

bentona 4y ago

I would frame it differently. There seem to be many dysfunctional marriages that are carried by e.g. inertia - and because of this, I do agree that perhaps marriage shouldn't be taken as such an assumption. By the same token, though, those that _do_ choose to engage in marriage should accept the responsibility and the (apparently, I am not married) large amount of effort it takes to make it successful. I'm choosing to look at this tactic as embracing that effort, and striving for an excellent marriage, instead of the "passable" marriage which seems to be the norm today.

namecheapTA 4y ago

Marriage isn't perfect, especially not with today's divorce law and family court system, but the idea of joining into a union with a new person and creating a new family unit, even if without kids, is probably the best system for most people. Single people have a way of going feral IMO.

zwirbl 4y ago
What's bad about divorce laws? People's view on divorce and divorce laws of the past seems to be much more awful
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Being in a relationship opens yourself up to a huge amount of financial risk which can last a very long time after the breakup/divorce. In most countries you are exposed to this risk even if you don't marry as you automatically enter a de facto which is pretty legally similar to a full marriage. This all made sense when you had a man working and a woman at home looking after the house and kids, but in a modern society where both work and responsibilities are mostly shared, it doesn't make sense that the person who earned the most is now at huge risk despite the relationship not reducing the others earning potential in any way. This risk is a real discouragement to even enter a relationship. You might be open to the emotional risk of things not working out but not be willing to put your house and future income on the line.
  - zwirbl 4y ago
    If that's your outlook on marriage you shouldn't marry in the first place, divorce laws or not, as it is a long term commitment with, of course, risks involved. > In most countries you are exposed to this risk even if you don't marry as you automatically enter a de facto which is pretty legally similar to a full marriage. From only being in a relationship or from living together, spending together, having kids together? I'm pretty sure there is no such thing in the EU country I reside in. Relationships aren't for everyone, especially when thinking about relationships like a business
  - 4y ago

smegma2 4y ago

Did you consider that your comment sounds a little mean towards the author?

Gigachad 4y ago
Hopefully the author is sensible enough to not be hurt by the most mild disagreement to the article point.

xupybd 4y ago

Marriage takes work, lots of work. The reward in my experience is totally worth it. You have to lay down part of your life for the new life that you experience with your spouse and children. The individual you once were is now part of a family and no longer exists as an individual. You serve your family and they serve you back. For me the amount I give of myself is much less than I receive back from the marriage / family. I would argue the amount everyone involved receives is more than the sum total they put in. If writing a note each day is too much work for you, then the daily sacrifices of being in a loving marriage may be too much for you. If that is the case you might want to think about what you're giving up and why. If you are happy with the exchange then great but I think many don't know how great it can be.

NotTameAntelope 4y ago
Eh, it doesn’t feel like work for me. I really enjoy my partner, she enjoys me, and I don’t think we have to do very much “work” to maintain that. If I started writing literal daily notes to my wife, she’d be very concerned something was wrong. Then she’d ask why I’m wasting my time writing a note when I could have done… literally annoying else more productive lol
- xupybd 4y ago
  To me this sounds similar to the old saying "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life" I've found this to simply mean that you enjoy the work you put in. Gamers can spend hours getting good at a game. Few would call it practice, they'd call it play. However, whatever you call it you need it to get good. Whatever that thing is that you put into a relationship, it's needed.
- skrebbel 4y ago
  No kids I take it?
  - exitb 4y ago
    These are separate things, I suppose. One can live a very challenging life, including the usual (or unusual...) kids trouble, and still find comfort in the relationship with their spouse.

throwaway892238 4y ago

Modern generations have been influenced by the Romantics, who, amongst other things, put forward the idea that self-sacrificing marriage is actually less noble than purely passionate love. This evolved into the notion that a marriage requires consistent passion, and that if you don't have it, something is wrong. But it turns out that marriage is really just a partnership and relationship, and all different kinds of people have different styles and interpretations of what that is and how it works for them. Some people need a lot of passion, some people need a lot of stability, some may need both, or neither. But there is definitely something to the notion that good relationships don't come easy. People are all flawed in different ways, and sometimes people need help to work through those flaws in order to have successful relationships. Plus, a marriage may involve some long term expensive investments, like a mortgage, pets, children. So "saving your marriage" might actually be quite a rational and emotionally intelligent act, if all partners are amenable to it. Best-case scenario: you end up with a long-term loving partnership and a wonderful life; worst-case, you don't. Seems like it's worth saving?

lbrito 4y ago

>marriage is not for everyone For quite a long time this was a very obvious and common sense statement. That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage, for example. Things changed only very recently.

zwirbl 4y ago
> That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage Can you elaborate on that? Living as an unmarried couple is not very catholic AFAICT, and when not in a relationship, how should you marry?
- lbrito 4y ago
  Yes, needless to say an unmarried couple is not what I was referring to. I'm saying that for a long time people have known that not everyone is cut out for marriage, and that it has never really been seen as "the only path". I don't understand your other remarks.
  - zwirbl 4y ago
    So it's "the only path" if in a relationship, with the alternatives being living in sin or not having a relationship. That is really very traditional Catholicism
    - irrational 4y ago
      I think they may be referring to the celibate life of a priest/monk/nun. Maybe.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    but then what has changed?
- michaelt 4y ago
  Check out 1 Corinthians 7:25-39 [1] I've heard there was a time, ~2000 years ago, when people thought the second coming of christ was so close they were only being asked to be celibate for a year or two, and marriage was only there for people who couldn't manage that. [1] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+7&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians...

haliskerbas 4y ago

Completely agree. I’m convinced that the get married have kids, raise them well, they become good workers, if you time it right we are all corporate drones as a happy family - dream is pretty horrible. I want to work to not have to work anymore. I can’t think about a partner because I’m too dead from work to give someone else the commitment they might deserve. Don’t want kids that sounds like work. Nothing is wrong with me just want to be able to relax without commitment.

insightcheck 4y ago
Would it be possible to change jobs/companies? Not all work is so draining that you can't have time for yourself, and many respect time boundaries. Hope you can one day make a living in a better environment.
em-bee 4y ago
having a partner may help you relax, and it may change your attitude to work. i felt pretty dead too from work, then coming home to be alone. when i got married i felt better about working because family life would balance it out and i had something to look forward to while at the office.

swatcoder 4y ago

Some relationships work by being easy. Some work by being well suited to partner on a big and delicate project, like raising a family. The person you’d most love to raise a family with (or run a fishing boat with, or whatever), isn’t necessarily the “easy” partner whose super cozy and gets you all the time and never needs you to make a special effort beyond what comes naturally. But at some point, if it’s what you want to do, you pick a partner for what’s important to you and make good on that choice. Depending on who you are and who you picked, that latter bit of “making good” might benefit from a few contrived gestures and rituals that wouldn’t have been necessary in some other “easy” relationship. But that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong relationship or an unhealthy relationship, it’s just your relationship; and if those things make it better, why wouldn’t you do them?

tbossanova 4y ago

I agree 100%. Marriage works for some, but we shouldn’t assume it works for all. People should be encouraged to seek the model that works for them best. That said, if you have a relationship that works, it’s definitely worth putting time into it in some way.

Gatsky 4y ago

This is very much a fair-weather first-third-of-life perspective. I see quite a lot of elderly people with health problems. The ones that are completely alone… it’s a pretty wretched existence, frankly. That’s the reality. Not to say all marriages are great obviously, but often even an ex-husband is better than no husband at all.

Pigalowda 4y ago
Agree completely. What I find truly weird is when Gen Z commenters in the west say “society”. Do they really believe marriage is some modern, western, or Christian invention? When they push forward as social animals with no social support network and things eventually take their toll (age/entropy/etc) they will fall back on someone else’s marriage for help - their parents or siblings. I say this as a late 30’s person with no marriage. I thought I had one and it didn’t work out unfortunately. Now it’s just me and I am in true shit if really anything remotely severe goes wrong.