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At what point can we just conclude we are living in a dystopia? Seems pertinent to note that one of the hallmarks of many fictional dystopias is that most folks

At what point can we just conclude we are living in a dystopia? Seems pertinent to note that one of the hallmarks of many fictional dystopias is that most folks don't even recognize there is a problem!

refulgentis 4y ago
The article is speculative in nature, despite an obviously unreachable conclusion being the title. As a result I think it's good to be cautious in relying on it for claims, particularly wide ones
sp332 4y ago
Ok, so we're living in a dystopia. What does that conclusion do for us?
allemagne 4y ago
There are useful ways of calling things out for being "dystopian" but it can also invoke a clarity that is necessary for narrative fiction, but not necessarily a useful lens for specific real life events. The line between a good shorthand and a thought-terminating cliche can be kind of blurry.
twblalock 4y ago
I've never heard of a dystopia you could opt out of by simply not buying a consumer product. 1984 and Brave New World would have been very short books if that was the definition of a dystopia.
- convolvatron 4y ago
  the 'don't collect and correlate data about me' tax is getting pretty high. but for now you can still pay it. no plane travel. can't use a cell phone. no online purchases. obviously no rewards systems. no credit cards.
  - dogman144 4y ago
    This exactly. Trying to live outside the collection is very difficult. A few years ago non-smart phones became untenable for use in basic civil society. More recently, an older smart phone or without face/touch enabled became hard to use. Recently, in cities like NY, due to QR-ification, going out without a smart phone meant issues getting menus. Now, the big ones are starting: end of cash, and civil life tracking. The NYC oyster-card equivalent for subways is per-user and sells data, per the ToS. The tap-to-pay subway turnstiles log per-station use (and therefore your travel) for your credit card provider. Many restaurants can’t do cash easily bc the proliferation of Square and what overworked civil servant is going to force mom and pop coffee shops to take cash? The laws on this got hazy a while back anyway. TSA/clearcheck or w/e in airports that use biometrics. Opt out options, besides being inconvenient, label you as what to the TSA? Drivers license photos are auto-sold to CBP facial rec tools and similar. Where is the opt out for that? This isn’t conspiratorial. it’s just the slow march of clever tech that works well so people who don’t understand the privacy tradeoffs or don’t care buy it, the purchase defines network effects which defines implied user preferences which defines new product choices which defines larger networks… which becomes more and more difficult to opt out of. If you claim this isn’t happening you don’t understand data eng and tech as a whole. The only thing saving us rn is the data eng part is really hard still.
- galdosdi 4y ago
  Sure, at the start. What about once every kind of product has some kind of irrevocable phone home surveillance? Eventually natural turnover would mean even the used market doesn't have much suitable if you want to avoid it.

refulgentis 4y ago

The article is speculative in nature, despite an obviously unreachable conclusion being the title. As a result I think it's good to be cautious in relying on it for claims, particularly wide ones

sp332 4y ago

Ok, so we're living in a dystopia. What does that conclusion do for us?

allemagne 4y ago

There are useful ways of calling things out for being "dystopian" but it can also invoke a clarity that is necessary for narrative fiction, but not necessarily a useful lens for specific real life events. The line between a good shorthand and a thought-terminating cliche can be kind of blurry.

twblalock 4y ago

I've never heard of a dystopia you could opt out of by simply not buying a consumer product. 1984 and Brave New World would have been very short books if that was the definition of a dystopia.

convolvatron 4y ago
the 'don't collect and correlate data about me' tax is getting pretty high. but for now you can still pay it. no plane travel. can't use a cell phone. no online purchases. obviously no rewards systems. no credit cards.
- dogman144 4y ago
  This exactly. Trying to live outside the collection is very difficult. A few years ago non-smart phones became untenable for use in basic civil society. More recently, an older smart phone or without face/touch enabled became hard to use. Recently, in cities like NY, due to QR-ification, going out without a smart phone meant issues getting menus. Now, the big ones are starting: end of cash, and civil life tracking. The NYC oyster-card equivalent for subways is per-user and sells data, per the ToS. The tap-to-pay subway turnstiles log per-station use (and therefore your travel) for your credit card provider. Many restaurants can’t do cash easily bc the proliferation of Square and what overworked civil servant is going to force mom and pop coffee shops to take cash? The laws on this got hazy a while back anyway. TSA/clearcheck or w/e in airports that use biometrics. Opt out options, besides being inconvenient, label you as what to the TSA? Drivers license photos are auto-sold to CBP facial rec tools and similar. Where is the opt out for that? This isn’t conspiratorial. it’s just the slow march of clever tech that works well so people who don’t understand the privacy tradeoffs or don’t care buy it, the purchase defines network effects which defines implied user preferences which defines new product choices which defines larger networks… which becomes more and more difficult to opt out of. If you claim this isn’t happening you don’t understand data eng and tech as a whole. The only thing saving us rn is the data eng part is really hard still.
galdosdi 4y ago
Sure, at the start. What about once every kind of product has some kind of irrevocable phone home surveillance? Eventually natural turnover would mean even the used market doesn't have much suitable if you want to avoid it.