4 ms·

It's great to see the EFF, the Free Software Foundation, and other big freedom fighters opposing this bill. (See http://americancensorship.org/ http://american

It's great to see the EFF, the Free Software Foundation, and other big freedom fighters opposing this bill. (See http://americancensorship.org/ http://americancensorship.org/ ). But are any of the big corporations fighting it? Google / YouTube? Microsoft? Apple? Come on guys! Step up! (or am I just missing their statements on this bad bill?) I think a "Stop Censorship" black banner across the Google logo tomorrow would go a long way toward defeating this.

albertsun 15y ago
Sad testament to the state of the policy making process in this country that the most we can hope for to stop one terrible piece of legislation advanced by corporations to further theirs interests is for another set of corporations to oppose it to further their diverging interests.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - cpr 15y ago
    No, formally speaking we have fascism in the US (from fasces, bundle of ax or spear handles), where we have the government and large corporations (think Goldman Sachs) working hand-in-glove. Another name might be corporate welfarism. They all add up to the same thing: elites running the country as their private playground. Most of the Tea Party and Occupy * folks have absolutely no idea what's going on, nor any idea of how to fix it, but they do know something's horribly wrong, and are taking to the streets to demonstrate at least that fact. If you want to learn more, read http://lewrockwell.com/ http://lewrockwell.com/ over a period of months--some of the best libertarian / Austrian school writers on the planet, and others with a similar bent.
    - twoodfin 15y ago
      So, when, "formally speaking" did the U.S. become a fascist state, in your opinion? No need to name the day, a rough decade span would be fine.
      - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
        I think it's the 60s, as the drumbeat of Vietnam was approaching, sparked by the assassination of both Kennedy brothers. The so-called End of Innocence for America, the Killing of Camelot. It's when we learned that dissent on even the highest pulpit will be silenced. We were warned before then by Eisenhower in his final Presidential address, but the tail end of the 60s was likely when Americans started to realize that we could not stop the rush. Endless money and inscrutable power will be forever intertwined, from the Medici's silent rule of Italy to now, where a few million dollars donated to the policeman's union by JP Morgan can buy the emptying of Zuccotti park and put the kibosh on the months-long Occupy movement.
        jonah 15y ago
        A couple background pieces on the increasing influence of money in politics and the disconnect between policy and the social good: http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Republican-Propaganda1sep04.htm http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Republican-Propaganda1s... http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-gop-became-the-party-of-the-rich-20111109 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-gop-became... These focus on the Republican party but much of the same can be said of the Democrats as well.
        mortenjorck 15y ago
        where a few million dollars donated to the policeman's union by Goldman Sachs can buy the emptying of Zuccotti park It's certainly not hard to imagine this (all you need are a few Valchek characters at some important desks), but do you have a citation for this?
        sp332 15y ago
        Not sure about the GS connection, but this page went up at the beginning of October http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.htm http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.ht...
- jimkogs 15y ago
  Is it really sad? Corporations wield a lot of power; that's why we built them. What would be sad is if they fail to stand up for our interests. And then we might have to do something about it.
  - albertsun 15y ago
    It is. Corporations exist for the purpose of maximizing their own profits. Government policy making should be about maximizing the people's well being. These might sometimes be related ends, but they're far from being the same thing.
nextparadigms 15y ago
Google is fighting it. It threatens both Youtube and Google search. I haven't seen them fighting it in public, though. But they should fight it openly and try to gather more support.
toshiblue 15y ago
From http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s968/money http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s968/money Specific orgs supporting the bill: Microsoft, CBS, MLB, NBA, NFL, Disney, Bose, Nike, etc, etc. Specific orgs opposed to the bill: Google, Yahoo, VISA, AmEx, and some foundations, groups, non-profits...but that's it.
- codedivine 15y ago
  I don't get why Pfizer, Adidas etc are supporting this. What do they gain out of this?
  - Xuzz 15y ago
    Counterfeits, possibly? I believe a lot of counterfeits are sold online and those companies might be interested in trying to get rid of those.
  - jhancock 15y ago
    My take is that SOPA is about a great deal more than digital goods. The global economy has enormous minor/innocent IP infringement as well as blatant copying. Companies want to circumvent tradition legal approaches to protecting their IP and it looks like they may get it.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - einhverfr 15y ago
      And it's not like our Constitution guarantees the protection of traditional legal approaches or anything. Oh wait....
  - robryan 15y ago
    Grey market goods? Currently these big companies fight a losing battle trying to secure their distribution to only authorised dealers. I would assume this bill would make it a lot easier for them to get sites they don't want trading their goods shut down.
sehugg 15y ago
There are reports of Google and Yahoo leaving or threatening to leave the US Chamber of Commerce (a private lobbying organization, btw) because of its stance on certain legislation: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/04/361469/google-leaving-chamber-commerce/ http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/04/361469/google-le... http://www.fixtheuschamber.org/tracking-the-chamber/yahoo-joins-apple-other-tech-companies-abandons-us-chamber http://www.fixtheuschamber.org/tracking-the-chamber/yahoo-jo... Interesting progression of events in the last 15 years, given that anti-piracy legislation was originally written to protect software companies.

albertsun 15y ago

Sad testament to the state of the policy making process in this country that the most we can hope for to stop one terrible piece of legislation advanced by corporations to further theirs interests is for another set of corporations to oppose it to further their diverging interests.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- cpr 15y ago
  No, formally speaking we have fascism in the US (from fasces, bundle of ax or spear handles), where we have the government and large corporations (think Goldman Sachs) working hand-in-glove. Another name might be corporate welfarism. They all add up to the same thing: elites running the country as their private playground. Most of the Tea Party and Occupy * folks have absolutely no idea what's going on, nor any idea of how to fix it, but they do know something's horribly wrong, and are taking to the streets to demonstrate at least that fact. If you want to learn more, read http://lewrockwell.com/ http://lewrockwell.com/ over a period of months--some of the best libertarian / Austrian school writers on the planet, and others with a similar bent.
  - twoodfin 15y ago
    So, when, "formally speaking" did the U.S. become a fascist state, in your opinion? No need to name the day, a rough decade span would be fine.
    - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
      I think it's the 60s, as the drumbeat of Vietnam was approaching, sparked by the assassination of both Kennedy brothers. The so-called End of Innocence for America, the Killing of Camelot. It's when we learned that dissent on even the highest pulpit will be silenced. We were warned before then by Eisenhower in his final Presidential address, but the tail end of the 60s was likely when Americans started to realize that we could not stop the rush. Endless money and inscrutable power will be forever intertwined, from the Medici's silent rule of Italy to now, where a few million dollars donated to the policeman's union by JP Morgan can buy the emptying of Zuccotti park and put the kibosh on the months-long Occupy movement.
      - jonah 15y ago
        A couple background pieces on the increasing influence of money in politics and the disconnect between policy and the social good: http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Republican-Propaganda1sep04.htm http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Republican-Propaganda1s... http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-gop-became-the-party-of-the-rich-20111109 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-gop-became... These focus on the Republican party but much of the same can be said of the Democrats as well.
      - mortenjorck 15y ago
        where a few million dollars donated to the policeman's union by Goldman Sachs can buy the emptying of Zuccotti park It's certainly not hard to imagine this (all you need are a few Valchek characters at some important desks), but do you have a citation for this?
        sp332 15y ago
        Not sure about the GS connection, but this page went up at the beginning of October http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.htm http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.ht...
jimkogs 15y ago
Is it really sad? Corporations wield a lot of power; that's why we built them. What would be sad is if they fail to stand up for our interests. And then we might have to do something about it.
- albertsun 15y ago
  It is. Corporations exist for the purpose of maximizing their own profits. Government policy making should be about maximizing the people's well being. These might sometimes be related ends, but they're far from being the same thing.

nextparadigms 15y ago

Google is fighting it. It threatens both Youtube and Google search. I haven't seen them fighting it in public, though. But they should fight it openly and try to gather more support.

toshiblue 15y ago

From http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s968/money http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s968/money Specific orgs supporting the bill: Microsoft, CBS, MLB, NBA, NFL, Disney, Bose, Nike, etc, etc. Specific orgs opposed to the bill: Google, Yahoo, VISA, AmEx, and some foundations, groups, non-profits...but that's it.

codedivine 15y ago
I don't get why Pfizer, Adidas etc are supporting this. What do they gain out of this?
- Xuzz 15y ago
  Counterfeits, possibly? I believe a lot of counterfeits are sold online and those companies might be interested in trying to get rid of those.
- jhancock 15y ago
  My take is that SOPA is about a great deal more than digital goods. The global economy has enormous minor/innocent IP infringement as well as blatant copying. Companies want to circumvent tradition legal approaches to protecting their IP and it looks like they may get it.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - einhverfr 15y ago
    And it's not like our Constitution guarantees the protection of traditional legal approaches or anything. Oh wait....
- robryan 15y ago
  Grey market goods? Currently these big companies fight a losing battle trying to secure their distribution to only authorised dealers. I would assume this bill would make it a lot easier for them to get sites they don't want trading their goods shut down.

sehugg 15y ago

There are reports of Google and Yahoo leaving or threatening to leave the US Chamber of Commerce (a private lobbying organization, btw) because of its stance on certain legislation: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/04/361469/google-leaving-chamber-commerce/ http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/04/361469/google-le... http://www.fixtheuschamber.org/tracking-the-chamber/yahoo-joins-apple-other-tech-companies-abandons-us-chamber http://www.fixtheuschamber.org/tracking-the-chamber/yahoo-jo... Interesting progression of events in the last 15 years, given that anti-piracy legislation was originally written to protect software companies.