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> If we want to be honest and about what is effective, it's not taking that flight and keeping that oil in the ground. I live in the UK. I think it’s reasonabl

> If we want to be honest and about what is effective, it's not taking that flight and keeping that oil in the ground. I live in the UK. I think it’s reasonable to visit my family in Australia every few years. Is it bad if I purchase carbon offsets?

hgsgm 4y ago
SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
Carbon offsets are just donations to environmental groups. There's nothing bad about either taking flights or making donations, but it's wrong in the "factually incorrect" sense to think that if you pick the right amounts to donate to the right groups you can make your flight environmentally friendly. It's like buying a "local business" offset every time you shop at Walmart - you can just do it if you want to or don't do it if you don't.
- nl 4y ago
  > Carbon offsets are just donations to environmental groups. Well that isn't true. Most carbon offset schemes are run by businesses.
tsimionescu 4y ago
Is it bad? No. Is it worse than never going, in terms of global warming impact? Yes. Is it still reasonable to do it every few years? Yes.
btilly 4y ago
It is surprisingly likely to be useless. If you think you've actually offset your flight and take the flight more often, that is bad. And that fact that we don't hold the standards organizations to a higher standard is definitely bad. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/04/carbon-offsets-used-by-major-airlines-based-on-flawed-system-warn-experts https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/04/carbon-o... discusses problems in the verification system most commonly relied on by airlines. As an example, of 12 projects that claimed to stop deforestation, 11 had no discernible effect, and the last overstated its impact by 40%. That's 95% "didn't happen". And they are temporary - a forest not cut down today may be cut down in 30 years. Or maybe not because someone else bought CO2 credits later for the exact same forest. (The offsets industry pointed out that the whole region saw reductions in logging for unknown reasons - and tried to take credit for all of it!) As https://secondnature.org/climate-action-guidance/purchasing-carbon-offsets-faqs/#cost https://secondnature.org/climate-action-guidance/purchasing-... says, the average CO2 offset only costs $3-6 per tonne. But the science on whether a tonne of CO2 was actually offset is sadly lacking. And there is a constant economic pressure to do the cheapest thing that sounds reasonable. And it is an invitation to scammers to cut corners from there. There is a good reason that environmental organizations like Greenpeace say to treat offsets as a scam. What does a real offset cost? Tech companies that are serious about making SURE that they have offset CO2 have been willing to promise https://charmindustrial.com/ https://charmindustrial.com/ about a billion dollars so far for verified CO2 removal. And it really is verified. Bio-oil is created out of agricultural waste and injected back into wells. If you want to KNOW that you've ACTUALLY offset your CO2, you can do likewise. It will cost you $600/tonne. Companies like Microsoft and Google aren't spending $600/tonne because they want to. But because that is a competitive rate for independently verifiable, absolutely did happen, CO2 removal. But you can continue to check that checkbox that guilt-free says you offset your carbon. And independent experts whose job isn't to pinky swear that it really happened are going to believe you really didn't offset your carbon.

hgsgm 4y ago

SpicyLemonZest 4y ago

Carbon offsets are just donations to environmental groups. There's nothing bad about either taking flights or making donations, but it's wrong in the "factually incorrect" sense to think that if you pick the right amounts to donate to the right groups you can make your flight environmentally friendly. It's like buying a "local business" offset every time you shop at Walmart - you can just do it if you want to or don't do it if you don't.

nl 4y ago
> Carbon offsets are just donations to environmental groups. Well that isn't true. Most carbon offset schemes are run by businesses.

tsimionescu 4y ago

Is it bad? No. Is it worse than never going, in terms of global warming impact? Yes. Is it still reasonable to do it every few years? Yes.

btilly 4y ago

It is surprisingly likely to be useless. If you think you've actually offset your flight and take the flight more often, that is bad. And that fact that we don't hold the standards organizations to a higher standard is definitely bad. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/04/carbon-offsets-used-by-major-airlines-based-on-flawed-system-warn-experts https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/04/carbon-o... discusses problems in the verification system most commonly relied on by airlines. As an example, of 12 projects that claimed to stop deforestation, 11 had no discernible effect, and the last overstated its impact by 40%. That's 95% "didn't happen". And they are temporary - a forest not cut down today may be cut down in 30 years. Or maybe not because someone else bought CO2 credits later for the exact same forest. (The offsets industry pointed out that the whole region saw reductions in logging for unknown reasons - and tried to take credit for all of it!) As https://secondnature.org/climate-action-guidance/purchasing-carbon-offsets-faqs/#cost https://secondnature.org/climate-action-guidance/purchasing-... says, the average CO2 offset only costs $3-6 per tonne. But the science on whether a tonne of CO2 was actually offset is sadly lacking. And there is a constant economic pressure to do the cheapest thing that sounds reasonable. And it is an invitation to scammers to cut corners from there. There is a good reason that environmental organizations like Greenpeace say to treat offsets as a scam. What does a real offset cost? Tech companies that are serious about making SURE that they have offset CO2 have been willing to promise https://charmindustrial.com/ https://charmindustrial.com/ about a billion dollars so far for verified CO2 removal. And it really is verified. Bio-oil is created out of agricultural waste and injected back into wells. If you want to KNOW that you've ACTUALLY offset your CO2, you can do likewise. It will cost you $600/tonne. Companies like Microsoft and Google aren't spending $600/tonne because they want to. But because that is a competitive rate for independently verifiable, absolutely did happen, CO2 removal. But you can continue to check that checkbox that guilt-free says you offset your carbon. And independent experts whose job isn't to pinky swear that it really happened are going to believe you really didn't offset your carbon.