5 ms·

Has anyone verified independently that the camera power is hardwired to the LED power on recent Apple hardware? Seems worth checking.

krono 4y ago
My goal isn't to know when I'm being spied on, it is to avoid being spied on at all :)
- CGamesPlay 4y ago
  And I suppose barring that, ignorance is bliss to you?
  - krono 4y ago
    Not at all, only pointing out the skewed perspective surrounding this topic.
Phlarp 4y ago
Worse actually, there is no physical indicator LED on the latest (M1) laptops, it's an indicator icon in the menu bar. In the "better" category, Apple claims webcam access is controlled by the secure enclave processor, which is more than most manufacturers do.
- gardaani 4y ago
  There is a physical indicator LED for the camera. The LED indicator can't be seen if the camera isn't in use. Try launching Photo Booth and you'll see the LED indicator. But, the latest Macs don't have a LED for the mic, which is a disappointment. Good old MacBooks had a LED indicator for the mic. EDIT: sorry, my memory failed me. The old MacBooks didn't have a LED for the mic. On white plastic MacBooks (2006), there's two black dots around the camera. The dot on the right side is a LED for the camera. The dot on the left side is the mic, not the LED indicator for it. Thanks for correcting me!
  - duskwuff 4y ago
    > Good old MacBooks had a LED indicator for the mic. No, this is not true. Apple never included a physical indicator for microphone use on any computer.
  - Cockbrand 4y ago
    > Good old MacBooks had a LED indicator for the mic Are you sure about that? I've had the plastic MacBook and a few MacBook Pros, and none of them had a hardware visual indicator for the mic.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    Would add that the microphone is hardware disconnected when lid is closed: https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/... So you should have some guarantee that no one is spying when laptop is sleeping at least.
    - fsflover 4y ago
      This is not actually "hardware disconnected", more like "firmware disconnected". Consider Purism Librem 14 if you actually want a hardware kill switch.
- duskwuff 4y ago
  > Worse actually, there is no physical indicator LED on the latest (M1) laptops, it's an indicator icon in the menu bar. This isn't true. I just tested it. There is definitely a physical LED next to the camera, within the "notch" area of the display.
  - mbalyuzi 4y ago
    Same with the M2 Air. Physical indicator in the notch.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
password1 4y ago
Yes, some security researchers at Johns Hopkins found an issue in older models (before 2013) that was since fixed and now it's should be impossible to circumvent it by software. https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams
mrweasel 4y ago
It hardly matter much, but yes, worth checking. As a former colleague pointed out: If some on is so far into my computer that they can disable the camera LED and turn on the camera, having leaked pictures of me walking around in my underwear is the least of my concerns. He had a point. We're so afraid of bad guys spying on us using the built in camera that we forget if they are so far into our machines they can steal pretty much everything else.
sys_64738 4y ago
Also, LEDs do fail.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  I wish the camera's power circuitry were set up such that the LED were an integral part of it, so the LED failing would make the camera inoperable too.
  - oynqr 4y ago
    The camera probably still gets voltage without the LED turning on, I remember a Louis Rossmann video where a Macbook failed to boot because of an overcurrent-caused defect in the camera. The funniest thing about that was the fuse protecting the camera was intact.

krono 4y ago

My goal isn't to know when I'm being spied on, it is to avoid being spied on at all :)

CGamesPlay 4y ago
And I suppose barring that, ignorance is bliss to you?
- krono 4y ago
  Not at all, only pointing out the skewed perspective surrounding this topic.

Phlarp 4y ago

Worse actually, there is no physical indicator LED on the latest (M1) laptops, it's an indicator icon in the menu bar. In the "better" category, Apple claims webcam access is controlled by the secure enclave processor, which is more than most manufacturers do.

gardaani 4y ago
There is a physical indicator LED for the camera. The LED indicator can't be seen if the camera isn't in use. Try launching Photo Booth and you'll see the LED indicator. But, the latest Macs don't have a LED for the mic, which is a disappointment. Good old MacBooks had a LED indicator for the mic. EDIT: sorry, my memory failed me. The old MacBooks didn't have a LED for the mic. On white plastic MacBooks (2006), there's two black dots around the camera. The dot on the right side is a LED for the camera. The dot on the left side is the mic, not the LED indicator for it. Thanks for correcting me!
- duskwuff 4y ago
  > Good old MacBooks had a LED indicator for the mic. No, this is not true. Apple never included a physical indicator for microphone use on any computer.
- Cockbrand 4y ago
  > Good old MacBooks had a LED indicator for the mic Are you sure about that? I've had the plastic MacBook and a few MacBook Pros, and none of them had a hardware visual indicator for the mic.
- threeseed 4y ago
  Would add that the microphone is hardware disconnected when lid is closed: https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/... So you should have some guarantee that no one is spying when laptop is sleeping at least.
  - fsflover 4y ago
    This is not actually "hardware disconnected", more like "firmware disconnected". Consider Purism Librem 14 if you actually want a hardware kill switch.
duskwuff 4y ago
> Worse actually, there is no physical indicator LED on the latest (M1) laptops, it's an indicator icon in the menu bar. This isn't true. I just tested it. There is definitely a physical LED next to the camera, within the "notch" area of the display.
- mbalyuzi 4y ago
  Same with the M2 Air. Physical indicator in the notch.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

password1 4y ago

Yes, some security researchers at Johns Hopkins found an issue in older models (before 2013) that was since fixed and now it's should be impossible to circumvent it by software. https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams

mrweasel 4y ago

It hardly matter much, but yes, worth checking. As a former colleague pointed out: If some on is so far into my computer that they can disable the camera LED and turn on the camera, having leaked pictures of me walking around in my underwear is the least of my concerns. He had a point. We're so afraid of bad guys spying on us using the built in camera that we forget if they are so far into our machines they can steal pretty much everything else.

sys_64738 4y ago

Also, LEDs do fail.

josephcsible 4y ago
I wish the camera's power circuitry were set up such that the LED were an integral part of it, so the LED failing would make the camera inoperable too.
- oynqr 4y ago
  The camera probably still gets voltage without the LED turning on, I remember a Louis Rossmann video where a Macbook failed to boot because of an overcurrent-caused defect in the camera. The funniest thing about that was the fuse protecting the camera was intact.