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No, he was a staunch liberal about 10'ish years ago. Often linking to NYTimes/Paul Krugman to substantiate his points, being a firm advocate for AA programs, to

by pen2l 4y ago

No, he was a staunch liberal about 10'ish years ago. Often linking to NYTimes/Paul Krugman to substantiate his points, being a firm advocate for AA programs, touting city-life and public transportation when he used to live in New York city. It's actually remarkable how much of a one-eighty he did. And as someone who looked up to him, and would often be convinced by the carefully thought-out rationale he'd provide for his viewpoints, very articulately so, I think I veered toward conservatism myself with him. But in the last year, the luster has been a little bit lost. His take on things once used to be the decidedly adult-in-the-room take, despite being a lawyer, what he wrote never came off as slimey, slight-of-hand lawyerly drivel, no, it was intellectual, rigorous, and a pleasure to read. But something has changed in the recent months. What's going on Rayiner?

tptacek 4y ago
None of these things are incompatible with conservatism. But we shouldn't litigate this; my comment was light-hearted.
rayiner 4y ago
In the past decade, Democrats tried to replace their working class white “blue wall” voters with immigrants and minorities. That gave rise to (1) an ugly and manipulative racial politics, seeking to unify unrelated “people of color” with oppression narratives, and (2) emboldened white progressives, who thought they wouldn’t have to moderate to keep Hispanics in Arizona in the fold the way they used to have to do for working class whites in Ohio.
- pen2l 4y ago
  I get what you're trying to say, the point I was trying to make was your mode and manner of messaging has ostensibly changed in recent time. E.g., just now way too casually you've in broad strokes implicated democrats to be behind duplicitous and conniving schemes in which they treat Hispanics and minorities as mere pawns in their games. Uh okay mayyybe someone at the DNC or a blue think-tank thinks like this and has said something along these lines to their fellow counter-part, but it's not how the regular run-of-the-mill liberal on the street or the average liberal on HN is thinking. To win hearts and minds either here in this little corner of the internet or out there in meat-space, it's not worthwhile or productive to say such a thing, if you do then in their view you're making a strawman so you lose a potential sympathetic ear and indeed the chance to win hearts and minds. Maybe qualify your statements differently, say "the heads at the DNC" instead of using indiscriminately general labels like "Liberals" or "Democrats" which tends to make the message start sounding adversarial. By the by, is running for any political office in the stars for you? (I pose the same question to you, Thomas. Frankly I wish both of you would consider it).
  - rayiner 4y ago
    > I get what you're trying to say, the point I was trying to make was your mode and manner of messaging has ostensibly changed in recent time. Sure—I came to the realization that my color blind upbringing in Republican Virginia isn’t something my kids will be able to enjoy. Instead they’ll be writing essays about how their grandfather grew up in a village in Bangladesh to persuade some admissions officer that they should get into college/get a job/etc. As Hilary Clinton might say, I’m resentful about that: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/supreme-courts-roe-v-wade-opinion-sparks-racist-attacks-clarence-thoma-rcna36261 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/supreme-courts-roe-v-w... > E.g., just now way too casually you've in broad strokes implicated democrats to be behind duplicitous and conniving schemes in which they treat Hispanics and minorities as mere pawns in their games. I think it’s ignorance and wishful thinking. Building a coalition is hard and nobody wants to compromise. It’s easier to assume that non-white people think like your Latinx friend from grad school, and changing demographics will make traditional politics obsolete. There’s also a kind of neo-colonialism. No less than the British in the 1700s, progressive Democrats believe that their own culture is morally superior. They think white societies have evolved the correct views about human rights, gender roles, sexual morality, raising children, etc. They want and need Muslim immigrants and religious Black and Latino people to vote for them, but have no intention of compromising with those groups over the party’s social agenda. (An amusing illustration of this phenomenon recently was white liberals calling Clarence Thomas “Uncle Tom” for views on abortion and same sex marriage that are typical for a Black man from the south.) > To win hearts and minds I think we’re past that. I think progressives are in a quasi-religious thrall, and moderate liberals defenseless against them. I’m hoping for a decade in the wilderness-type collapse of the Democratic Party, like what happened with Reagan, or what’s happened recently with Labour in the UK.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      "Defenseless against them"? We depantsed them in the last election cycle. I could say the same thing about the "Christian Nationalists" and jet-fuel-doesn't-melt-steel-beam-ism if your party. Come off it. The real world isn't Twitter.
- worthyawa 4y ago
  This doesn't actually explain anything, though. "Major party adopts a plank I detest" does not imply "therefore my personal policy preferences become inverted". Liz Cheney isn't suddenly cozying up to Greenpeace just because the rest of her caucus disagrees with her about Jan 6.
- specialist 4y ago
  It's true that white Progressives have a lot to answer for. We're oblivious (not woke), patronizing, and paternalistic. Hopefully, that's changing. FYI, In reaction to the Civil Rights era, the white working class left the Democratic coalition. Most of the Democratic internecine warfare ("circular firing squad") since then has been about "if" and "how" to bring those whites back into the coalition. I'm very involved in local politics. I've been PCO for my blue state's largest precinct in arguably the most left-wing legislative district (and therefore congressional district). Think Pramila Jayapal. The outsider and MSM depictions of how these things play out isn't even wrong. I can't speak to how Arizona's or Maricopa County's misc Democratic Party orgs operate (each is distinct). From my (very) limited contact, my impression is they're not so different from my primary party org.
wglb 4y ago
In my first startup experience, one of my teammates was a Harvard grad. As we got closer to being able to exercise our Rule 144 stock, he observed "Funny--the more wealthy I get, the more Republican I feel myself becoming."

by pen2l 4y ago

tptacek 4y ago

None of these things are incompatible with conservatism. But we shouldn't litigate this; my comment was light-hearted.

rayiner 4y ago

In the past decade, Democrats tried to replace their working class white “blue wall” voters with immigrants and minorities. That gave rise to (1) an ugly and manipulative racial politics, seeking to unify unrelated “people of color” with oppression narratives, and (2) emboldened white progressives, who thought they wouldn’t have to moderate to keep Hispanics in Arizona in the fold the way they used to have to do for working class whites in Ohio.

pen2l 4y ago
I get what you're trying to say, the point I was trying to make was your mode and manner of messaging has ostensibly changed in recent time. E.g., just now way too casually you've in broad strokes implicated democrats to be behind duplicitous and conniving schemes in which they treat Hispanics and minorities as mere pawns in their games. Uh okay mayyybe someone at the DNC or a blue think-tank thinks like this and has said something along these lines to their fellow counter-part, but it's not how the regular run-of-the-mill liberal on the street or the average liberal on HN is thinking. To win hearts and minds either here in this little corner of the internet or out there in meat-space, it's not worthwhile or productive to say such a thing, if you do then in their view you're making a strawman so you lose a potential sympathetic ear and indeed the chance to win hearts and minds. Maybe qualify your statements differently, say "the heads at the DNC" instead of using indiscriminately general labels like "Liberals" or "Democrats" which tends to make the message start sounding adversarial. By the by, is running for any political office in the stars for you? (I pose the same question to you, Thomas. Frankly I wish both of you would consider it).
- rayiner 4y ago
  > I get what you're trying to say, the point I was trying to make was your mode and manner of messaging has ostensibly changed in recent time. Sure—I came to the realization that my color blind upbringing in Republican Virginia isn’t something my kids will be able to enjoy. Instead they’ll be writing essays about how their grandfather grew up in a village in Bangladesh to persuade some admissions officer that they should get into college/get a job/etc. As Hilary Clinton might say, I’m resentful about that: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/supreme-courts-roe-v-wade-opinion-sparks-racist-attacks-clarence-thoma-rcna36261 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/supreme-courts-roe-v-w... > E.g., just now way too casually you've in broad strokes implicated democrats to be behind duplicitous and conniving schemes in which they treat Hispanics and minorities as mere pawns in their games. I think it’s ignorance and wishful thinking. Building a coalition is hard and nobody wants to compromise. It’s easier to assume that non-white people think like your Latinx friend from grad school, and changing demographics will make traditional politics obsolete. There’s also a kind of neo-colonialism. No less than the British in the 1700s, progressive Democrats believe that their own culture is morally superior. They think white societies have evolved the correct views about human rights, gender roles, sexual morality, raising children, etc. They want and need Muslim immigrants and religious Black and Latino people to vote for them, but have no intention of compromising with those groups over the party’s social agenda. (An amusing illustration of this phenomenon recently was white liberals calling Clarence Thomas “Uncle Tom” for views on abortion and same sex marriage that are typical for a Black man from the south.) > To win hearts and minds I think we’re past that. I think progressives are in a quasi-religious thrall, and moderate liberals defenseless against them. I’m hoping for a decade in the wilderness-type collapse of the Democratic Party, like what happened with Reagan, or what’s happened recently with Labour in the UK.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    "Defenseless against them"? We depantsed them in the last election cycle. I could say the same thing about the "Christian Nationalists" and jet-fuel-doesn't-melt-steel-beam-ism if your party. Come off it. The real world isn't Twitter.
worthyawa 4y ago
This doesn't actually explain anything, though. "Major party adopts a plank I detest" does not imply "therefore my personal policy preferences become inverted". Liz Cheney isn't suddenly cozying up to Greenpeace just because the rest of her caucus disagrees with her about Jan 6.
specialist 4y ago
It's true that white Progressives have a lot to answer for. We're oblivious (not woke), patronizing, and paternalistic. Hopefully, that's changing. FYI, In reaction to the Civil Rights era, the white working class left the Democratic coalition. Most of the Democratic internecine warfare ("circular firing squad") since then has been about "if" and "how" to bring those whites back into the coalition. I'm very involved in local politics. I've been PCO for my blue state's largest precinct in arguably the most left-wing legislative district (and therefore congressional district). Think Pramila Jayapal. The outsider and MSM depictions of how these things play out isn't even wrong. I can't speak to how Arizona's or Maricopa County's misc Democratic Party orgs operate (each is distinct). From my (very) limited contact, my impression is they're not so different from my primary party org.

wglb 4y ago

In my first startup experience, one of my teammates was a Harvard grad. As we got closer to being able to exercise our Rule 144 stock, he observed "Funny--the more wealthy I get, the more Republican I feel myself becoming."