6 ms·

Urban centers arent any better. Both sides have become more and more radicalized. As a gay guy who loves urban life and has a lot of conservative views, this wo

Urban centers arent any better. Both sides have become more and more radicalized. As a gay guy who loves urban life and has a lot of conservative views, this world is very frustrating.

sofixa 4y ago
It's a bit like the Cuban émigrés in Florida who fear anything left of Pinochet, and thus vote for the party blaming people like themselves (from "mexican countries" if i can quote a very knowledgeable news anchor on Fox news or some other trash TV network) for all ills. So in your case, you can vote for the party that's, in general, against what you are, or for the policies that you want (probably on the economic more than social side of conservatism, it'd be interesting for a gay person to be socially conservative). That's why a two party system is extremely stupid.
- slt2021 4y ago
  Actually the reason why hispanic migrants vote republican (=against immigration) are purely economical, not ideological. Newly arrived immigrants compete on the same job market for the same jobs, that these (now legal) older immigrants occupy: service jobs, hospitality, food, etc. any new immigrants puts downward pressure on wages and reduces overall pie. I would say this is pure capitalist ideology at play here
- rayiner 4y ago
  I would suggest that it’s a bad idea for liberals to actually drink their own Kool Aid, or they’re going to overlook the facts on the ground. https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/whats-going-on-with-hispanic-working https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/whats-going-on-with.... And standing around complaining that brown people are “voting against their own interests” is not a good look. I’m an immigrant from a Muslim country who used to be a Democrat, and now I vote Republican, in part because I think the way Democrats view race is bad for minorities, and also consciously or unconsciously a pretext for consolidating cultural power in the hands of white elites: https://contexts.org/blog/who-gets-to-define-whats-racist https://contexts.org/blog/who-gets-to-define-whats-racist. Moreover, I’ve been all around the country, the Midwest and the south, and I’ve never met anybody that is “against who I am.” What I’ve met is people who are concerned about cultural change, in the same way people from my home country would be if the shoe were in the other foot.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    You've been a self-identified conservative since before you signed up for HN, so the liberalism you're implying you had here must have been confined to your very early 20s, before you were "the token conservative" at law school. :) (I'm not dunking on you; you've gotten, uh, pretty strident in the last year or so, but your conservatism is one of the things I appreciate about your presence here.)
    - nec4b 4y ago
      I can't remember when was the last time I read an original comment from you that wasn't a snipe at rayiner. It's too bad, because you used to have insightful ideas.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        Nothing I said here is a snipe at Rayiner. If you'd like to read comments of mine that aren't directed at Rayiner, click my name above the comment you're reading, then "Comments".
    - pen2l 4y ago
      No, he was a staunch liberal about 10'ish years ago. Often linking to NYTimes/Paul Krugman to substantiate his points, being a firm advocate for AA programs, touting city-life and public transportation when he used to live in New York city. It's actually remarkable how much of a one-eighty he did. And as someone who looked up to him, and would often be convinced by the carefully thought-out rationale he'd provide for his viewpoints, very articulately so, I think I veered toward conservatism myself with him. But in the last year, the luster has been a little bit lost. His take on things once used to be the decidedly adult-in-the-room take, despite being a lawyer, what he wrote never came off as slimey, slight-of-hand lawyerly drivel, no, it was intellectual, rigorous, and a pleasure to read. But something has changed in the recent months. What's going on Rayiner?
      - tptacek 4y ago
        None of these things are incompatible with conservatism. But we shouldn't litigate this; my comment was light-hearted.

Urban centers arent any better. Both sides have become more and more radicalized. As a gay guy who loves urban life and has a lot of conservative views, this world is very frustrating.

sofixa 4y ago

It's a bit like the Cuban émigrés in Florida who fear anything left of Pinochet, and thus vote for the party blaming people like themselves (from "mexican countries" if i can quote a very knowledgeable news anchor on Fox news or some other trash TV network) for all ills. So in your case, you can vote for the party that's, in general, against what you are, or for the policies that you want (probably on the economic more than social side of conservatism, it'd be interesting for a gay person to be socially conservative). That's why a two party system is extremely stupid.

slt2021 4y ago
Actually the reason why hispanic migrants vote republican (=against immigration) are purely economical, not ideological. Newly arrived immigrants compete on the same job market for the same jobs, that these (now legal) older immigrants occupy: service jobs, hospitality, food, etc. any new immigrants puts downward pressure on wages and reduces overall pie. I would say this is pure capitalist ideology at play here
rayiner 4y ago
I would suggest that it’s a bad idea for liberals to actually drink their own Kool Aid, or they’re going to overlook the facts on the ground. https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/whats-going-on-with-hispanic-working https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/whats-going-on-with.... And standing around complaining that brown people are “voting against their own interests” is not a good look. I’m an immigrant from a Muslim country who used to be a Democrat, and now I vote Republican, in part because I think the way Democrats view race is bad for minorities, and also consciously or unconsciously a pretext for consolidating cultural power in the hands of white elites: https://contexts.org/blog/who-gets-to-define-whats-racist https://contexts.org/blog/who-gets-to-define-whats-racist. Moreover, I’ve been all around the country, the Midwest and the south, and I’ve never met anybody that is “against who I am.” What I’ve met is people who are concerned about cultural change, in the same way people from my home country would be if the shoe were in the other foot.
- tptacek 4y ago
  You've been a self-identified conservative since before you signed up for HN, so the liberalism you're implying you had here must have been confined to your very early 20s, before you were "the token conservative" at law school. :) (I'm not dunking on you; you've gotten, uh, pretty strident in the last year or so, but your conservatism is one of the things I appreciate about your presence here.)
  - nec4b 4y ago
    I can't remember when was the last time I read an original comment from you that wasn't a snipe at rayiner. It's too bad, because you used to have insightful ideas.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      Nothing I said here is a snipe at Rayiner. If you'd like to read comments of mine that aren't directed at Rayiner, click my name above the comment you're reading, then "Comments".
  - pen2l 4y ago
    No, he was a staunch liberal about 10'ish years ago. Often linking to NYTimes/Paul Krugman to substantiate his points, being a firm advocate for AA programs, touting city-life and public transportation when he used to live in New York city. It's actually remarkable how much of a one-eighty he did. And as someone who looked up to him, and would often be convinced by the carefully thought-out rationale he'd provide for his viewpoints, very articulately so, I think I veered toward conservatism myself with him. But in the last year, the luster has been a little bit lost. His take on things once used to be the decidedly adult-in-the-room take, despite being a lawyer, what he wrote never came off as slimey, slight-of-hand lawyerly drivel, no, it was intellectual, rigorous, and a pleasure to read. But something has changed in the recent months. What's going on Rayiner?
    - tptacek 4y ago
      None of these things are incompatible with conservatism. But we shouldn't litigate this; my comment was light-hearted.