6 ms·

My experience giving my mom a Linux laptop

34 points by nixcraft 4y ago

superchroma 4y ago
My impression with these accounts is that they're always about a person who basically doesn't use the computer; a person who sometimes writes documents, and otherwise browses the internet. I'm not surprised the changeover is easy, their needs would probably be satisfied by a phone and a typewriter; these are very mundane requirements. I instead deal with a class of user that does use the computer more deeply, but refuses to master it. They record audio, subtitle video and edit media metadata, manage a complex audio library, and peform some other tasks. Given this is enabled by a shaky, taped-together understanding of where everything is, plus a healthy dose of fear of change, I think I would be in for a rough time if I attempted this move with them.
- upbeat_general 4y ago
  100% this. Even the people that I know that due much less complicated things would have tremendous issues. Editing a PDF in Acrobat, downloading some scanning software, etc etc.
  - simion314 4y ago
    Why you need to download a scanning software? Windows and Linux distros have already a scanning software installed.I am curios, maybe you mean something more advanced with some extra fgeatures ?
    - viraptor 4y ago
      Linux has good scanning defaults (gnome's simple-scan and kde's slightly better skanpage), but windows default is so clunky and lacks basic quality of life features i don't know anyone willingly using it more than extremely occasionally.
    - upbeat_general 4y ago
      In this example, I tried to get my relative to use the built in macOS scanner but they refused, both because they were already used to the brother software and because they apparently called Brother support somewhat often for various issues and they would obviously say to install their own driver + software.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  "A person who basically doesn't use the computer" describes a very large cohort.
  - superchroma 4y ago
    oh, yeah, for sure, computer literacy isn't rising, but the takeaway here is that linux is suitable for professionals and non-participants and nobody in between.
    - sph 4y ago
      That says more about people learning something and having difficult time adjusting to another OS, which is extremely common, especially among "techies". You've used Windows your whole life, you won't have a easy time on macOS or Linux. The infamous Linux Tech Tips experiment is the damning proof of it: trying to do things the Windows way and getting annoyed because it works differently on Linux. People with no experience have no biases and are as such more objective test subjects. While Linux has obvious faults and shortcomings, I think the monetary aspect is an underrated psychological factor: if you bought a Mac, you've spent money and you have a great incentive to make it work for you. Linux is free, you try a live CD a weekend, get frustrated and blog about Linux being obtuse. Explains why Linux is common among tech teenagers (free time to get past that hurdle) and pros (incentive to make Linux work for you).
- Macha 4y ago
  Is this not also the case for the "I replaced my relative's computer with an iPad" stories that were popular a few years back?
- unixhero 4y ago
  Good point. And to that person with the shaky knowledge; I have found it to be impossible to improve their knowledge. The metaphors Window, Button, Desktop, Folder, File, Program, URL, Google Search is impossible to get them to learn precisely. I have given up.
  - alexvoda 4y ago
    Indeed. I am also in this situation. The refusal to adopt even the idea of metaphors is incredibly frustrating. And metaphors that are used less than every single day are quickly forgotten.
  - superchroma 4y ago
    Sadly, yeah. I get it though, it's not their passion or job, they don't want to have to care, same as I don't really want to know how my car works, I just want to drive it and have the radio dial to be the same place it was yesterday when I reach for it. You're better off if you understand things, but there's only so many things in life you can master, and you have to rely on others for everything else.
    - unixhero 4y ago
      In addition , somewhere along the way Google pushed Picasa onto them which they managed to learn. This application does away with the file and folder metaphor and focuses on albums and pictures. Picasa is now discontinued. And don't get me started with my country's national identity which uses a combination of smart phone and on screen instructions as proof of identity to log in, pay and get onto the netbanks. And they are drifting further and further away from getting it.
- adrian_b 4y ago
  I have the experience with my 2 parents, who at an age between 80 and 90 years have used during several years computers with Linux, without any problems ever and without even knowing what is "Linux" and that they are using "Linux". Obviously that was possible only because I have installed and configured all programs for them. Nevertheless, that is also true for Windows, because most Windows users would never be able to use Windows, had it not been already preinstalled on their computers by professionals. I have installed professionally both Linux and Windows on many computers with slightly less usual hardware, as they were embedded computers, and surprisingly, I had more cases when Linux just worked, while making Windows Enterprise work required several days of efforts, and the unexpected solution for Windows was not in any nice graphical menu, but in the invocation of some obscure Windows command-line utility, using some magic command-line options, which had been found by searching the Internet for forums of Windows users that had encountered the same problems. So from my experience, the ease of use of Windows vs. Linux is greatly exaggerated, some times any of them may just work after a default installation without any user intervention, but also any of them may require a professional for installation and configuration. In the case of my parents, my mother had little experience with computers and I put her on Linux since the beginning. She used the computer mainly to watch TV shows, to watch movies, listen music or read books. Because I had installed and configured all the programs needed by her, it was very easy for her to do any of these activities. Moreover, she did these mostly by using an infrared remote controller, and the programs were configured to map all commands to the buttons of the remote controller. So it really did not matter whether that was Linux or Windows, as the main user interface learned by her were the buttons of the remote controller and their effects on the graphic display. My father was relatively experienced with Windows, and he used it also at home for some time, until Windows was blocked by some ransomware. After wiping Windows, I did not restore it, but I switched him to Linux. He was the kind of user described by you. Besides Internet browsing, he was writing and editing many Word documents and Excel spreadsheets, he was recording movies, writing subtitles for them and editing subtitles. He also organized a large collection of legal documents. After I had installed and configured to suit his preferences all the programs needed for his activities, and after I have also written a few scripts to ensure that anything that he wants to do can be done with a click, without the need of selecting extra options, he succeeded to do everything easier than previously on Windows (where I had not attempted to help him by writing scripts to automatize his more frequent activities). My father had only one problem during the transition from Windows to Linux, which was the transition from MS Excel to OpenOffice/LibreOffice Calc, as he had liked better Excel. Eventually he became habituated enough with Calc, so he no longer missed even Excel. Actually, in my experience, the older versions of MS Office work even better on Linux than on Windows, for some unknown reason (via Crossover or Wine), so I could have let my father continue to use MS Office under Linux, but the last MS Office versions that I have bought have been those from 2003 and 2004 and I wanted to wean my father of them, as they had become too old and I did not want to buy any new version of MS Office, as I dislike the modern MS Office UI, which IMO is much worse than the traditional MS Office UI.
unsupp0rted 4y ago
> * "I'm clicking but nothing is happening" > She was single clicking on icons instead of double clicking; this is how her Windows laptop was setup too
Lurkars 4y ago
All this OS wars come mostly down to what you're used too (and therefore expect). I successfully migrated my mom, wife and several friends to use Ubuntu. It's always a learning curve, but when others say, sth is "unintuitive", it mostly came down, that they're just used to different behaviour. My own experience is now, that I am not able to quickly get thinks done on Windows or for example the simple changed keyboard layout of a Mac drives me crazy (Ctrl-C etc...). But I would never say, the one OS is better. A friend of mine swears up on Apple gestures, but I get never used too gestures and like keyboard shortcuts more.
- 9dev 4y ago
  Totally not trying to start a flame war here, but regarding keyboard shortcuts on Mac OS: I actually love the fact that there is the command key, and how it makes sense semantically. Cmd+C to copy works parallel to Ctrl+C in the terminal, which lets me rely on muscle memory for clipboard operations without conflicting with CLI ops! Also, any shortcut involving the Cmd key will be a command that you issue, and anything with Alt will execute an alternative variant or something. I never noticed this until someone pointed me to this, but I’ve appreciated the consistency ever since.
kejaed 4y ago
This class of user seems like they would be a good target for the use of a Chromebook.
ntnsndr 4y ago
I've had my mom on Ubuntu for maybe 5-7 years. Mostly a great experience. She sounds like she is at a similar level as OP's. It has been nice because when she does have questions or problems, it becomes something we can work on together, because unlike solving problems on walled gardens, I actually enjoy helping her now. Even though she is not a computer person, she appreciates being in an ecosystem more attuned to her values. It also enables her to run old computers, which she is happy with.

34 points by nixcraft 4y ago

My impression with these accounts is that they're always about a person who basically doesn't use the computer; a person who sometimes writes documents, and otherwise browses the internet. I'm not surprised the changeover is easy, their needs would probably be satisfied by a phone and a typewriter; these are very mundane requirements. I instead deal with a class of user that does use the computer more deeply, but refuses to master it. They record audio, subtitle video and edit media metadata, manage a complex audio library, and peform some other tasks. Given this is enabled by a shaky, taped-together understanding of where everything is, plus a healthy dose of fear of change, I think I would be in for a rough time if I attempted this move with them.

upbeat_general 4y ago
100% this. Even the people that I know that due much less complicated things would have tremendous issues. Editing a PDF in Acrobat, downloading some scanning software, etc etc.
- simion314 4y ago
  Why you need to download a scanning software? Windows and Linux distros have already a scanning software installed.I am curios, maybe you mean something more advanced with some extra fgeatures ?
  - viraptor 4y ago
    Linux has good scanning defaults (gnome's simple-scan and kde's slightly better skanpage), but windows default is so clunky and lacks basic quality of life features i don't know anyone willingly using it more than extremely occasionally.
  - upbeat_general 4y ago
    In this example, I tried to get my relative to use the built in macOS scanner but they refused, both because they were already used to the brother software and because they apparently called Brother support somewhat often for various issues and they would obviously say to install their own driver + software.
dredmorbius 4y ago
"A person who basically doesn't use the computer" describes a very large cohort.
- superchroma 4y ago
  oh, yeah, for sure, computer literacy isn't rising, but the takeaway here is that linux is suitable for professionals and non-participants and nobody in between.
  - sph 4y ago
    That says more about people learning something and having difficult time adjusting to another OS, which is extremely common, especially among "techies". You've used Windows your whole life, you won't have a easy time on macOS or Linux. The infamous Linux Tech Tips experiment is the damning proof of it: trying to do things the Windows way and getting annoyed because it works differently on Linux. People with no experience have no biases and are as such more objective test subjects. While Linux has obvious faults and shortcomings, I think the monetary aspect is an underrated psychological factor: if you bought a Mac, you've spent money and you have a great incentive to make it work for you. Linux is free, you try a live CD a weekend, get frustrated and blog about Linux being obtuse. Explains why Linux is common among tech teenagers (free time to get past that hurdle) and pros (incentive to make Linux work for you).
Macha 4y ago
Is this not also the case for the "I replaced my relative's computer with an iPad" stories that were popular a few years back?
unixhero 4y ago
Good point. And to that person with the shaky knowledge; I have found it to be impossible to improve their knowledge. The metaphors Window, Button, Desktop, Folder, File, Program, URL, Google Search is impossible to get them to learn precisely. I have given up.
- alexvoda 4y ago
  Indeed. I am also in this situation. The refusal to adopt even the idea of metaphors is incredibly frustrating. And metaphors that are used less than every single day are quickly forgotten.
- superchroma 4y ago
  Sadly, yeah. I get it though, it's not their passion or job, they don't want to have to care, same as I don't really want to know how my car works, I just want to drive it and have the radio dial to be the same place it was yesterday when I reach for it. You're better off if you understand things, but there's only so many things in life you can master, and you have to rely on others for everything else.
  - unixhero 4y ago
    In addition , somewhere along the way Google pushed Picasa onto them which they managed to learn. This application does away with the file and folder metaphor and focuses on albums and pictures. Picasa is now discontinued. And don't get me started with my country's national identity which uses a combination of smart phone and on screen instructions as proof of identity to log in, pay and get onto the netbanks. And they are drifting further and further away from getting it.
adrian_b 4y ago
I have the experience with my 2 parents, who at an age between 80 and 90 years have used during several years computers with Linux, without any problems ever and without even knowing what is "Linux" and that they are using "Linux". Obviously that was possible only because I have installed and configured all programs for them. Nevertheless, that is also true for Windows, because most Windows users would never be able to use Windows, had it not been already preinstalled on their computers by professionals. I have installed professionally both Linux and Windows on many computers with slightly less usual hardware, as they were embedded computers, and surprisingly, I had more cases when Linux just worked, while making Windows Enterprise work required several days of efforts, and the unexpected solution for Windows was not in any nice graphical menu, but in the invocation of some obscure Windows command-line utility, using some magic command-line options, which had been found by searching the Internet for forums of Windows users that had encountered the same problems. So from my experience, the ease of use of Windows vs. Linux is greatly exaggerated, some times any of them may just work after a default installation without any user intervention, but also any of them may require a professional for installation and configuration. In the case of my parents, my mother had little experience with computers and I put her on Linux since the beginning. She used the computer mainly to watch TV shows, to watch movies, listen music or read books. Because I had installed and configured all the programs needed by her, it was very easy for her to do any of these activities. Moreover, she did these mostly by using an infrared remote controller, and the programs were configured to map all commands to the buttons of the remote controller. So it really did not matter whether that was Linux or Windows, as the main user interface learned by her were the buttons of the remote controller and their effects on the graphic display. My father was relatively experienced with Windows, and he used it also at home for some time, until Windows was blocked by some ransomware. After wiping Windows, I did not restore it, but I switched him to Linux. He was the kind of user described by you. Besides Internet browsing, he was writing and editing many Word documents and Excel spreadsheets, he was recording movies, writing subtitles for them and editing subtitles. He also organized a large collection of legal documents. After I had installed and configured to suit his preferences all the programs needed for his activities, and after I have also written a few scripts to ensure that anything that he wants to do can be done with a click, without the need of selecting extra options, he succeeded to do everything easier than previously on Windows (where I had not attempted to help him by writing scripts to automatize his more frequent activities). My father had only one problem during the transition from Windows to Linux, which was the transition from MS Excel to OpenOffice/LibreOffice Calc, as he had liked better Excel. Eventually he became habituated enough with Calc, so he no longer missed even Excel. Actually, in my experience, the older versions of MS Office work even better on Linux than on Windows, for some unknown reason (via Crossover or Wine), so I could have let my father continue to use MS Office under Linux, but the last MS Office versions that I have bought have been those from 2003 and 2004 and I wanted to wean my father of them, as they had become too old and I did not want to buy any new version of MS Office, as I dislike the modern MS Office UI, which IMO is much worse than the traditional MS Office UI.

unsupp0rted 4y ago

> * "I'm clicking but nothing is happening" > She was single clicking on icons instead of double clicking; this is how her Windows laptop was setup too

Lurkars 4y ago

All this OS wars come mostly down to what you're used too (and therefore expect). I successfully migrated my mom, wife and several friends to use Ubuntu. It's always a learning curve, but when others say, sth is "unintuitive", it mostly came down, that they're just used to different behaviour. My own experience is now, that I am not able to quickly get thinks done on Windows or for example the simple changed keyboard layout of a Mac drives me crazy (Ctrl-C etc...). But I would never say, the one OS is better. A friend of mine swears up on Apple gestures, but I get never used too gestures and like keyboard shortcuts more.

9dev 4y ago
Totally not trying to start a flame war here, but regarding keyboard shortcuts on Mac OS: I actually love the fact that there is the command key, and how it makes sense semantically. Cmd+C to copy works parallel to Ctrl+C in the terminal, which lets me rely on muscle memory for clipboard operations without conflicting with CLI ops! Also, any shortcut involving the Cmd key will be a command that you issue, and anything with Alt will execute an alternative variant or something. I never noticed this until someone pointed me to this, but I’ve appreciated the consistency ever since.

kejaed 4y ago

This class of user seems like they would be a good target for the use of a Chromebook.

ntnsndr 4y ago

I've had my mom on Ubuntu for maybe 5-7 years. Mostly a great experience. She sounds like she is at a similar level as OP's. It has been nice because when she does have questions or problems, it becomes something we can work on together, because unlike solving problems on walled gardens, I actually enjoy helping her now. Even though she is not a computer person, she appreciates being in an ecosystem more attuned to her values. It also enables her to run old computers, which she is happy with.