4 ms·

The most ridiculous thing about FSD is that there are people who paid $10,000 extra on their lease financing to pre-purchase FSD on their leased Model S/Y/3, dr

by avalys 4y ago

The most ridiculous thing about FSD is that there are people who paid $10,000 extra on their lease financing to pre-purchase FSD on their leased Model S/Y/3, drove the entire period of the 3-year lease without ever seeing any functionality, then returned their car to Tesla without receiving any refund. Tesla then resold the cars without FSD unless the new buyers paid for the scam again. Astonishing that they haven’t been sued over this. What a joke.

duckkg5 4y ago
I own one and am glad they are getting flack. hopefully someone will compel them to make it right.
omarforgotpwd 4y ago
The Full Self-Driving package on Teslas gives you access to a number of features including autopark, auto lane change, navigate on autopilot, green light chime, traffic light and stop sign control, summon, smart summon, an update to the latest car computer, as well as the city streets Beta. Just not true to say they received no functionality. I paid $7,000 for it on my last car and it's incredible. It can often do entire drives with no human input. And not just simple drives, but some pretty complex scenarios too.
- mark242 4y ago
  > It can often do entire drives with no human input. And not just simple drives, but some pretty complex scenarios too. This is just patently false. I have been in the beta for months, and I have yet to have "an entire drive" without having to disengage. FSD behaves like a fifteen-year-old who has just gotten their learner's permit and has zero long-term memory. Any intersection that has a dedicated right-turn lane, when that lane comes out of a widening right lane (as most of them do), FSD will fail on, and will at the very last moment swerve to make the lane change, endangering human drivers coming up from behind, who are correctly getting into the space on the right. Every single time. I cannot count the number of times that a left turn onto a road with a slightly raised middle divider (planters, whatever) will fail. Every single time. At a four-way stop sign FSD does not know when it has the right-of-way and will always defer to every other car. This often leaves you sitting waiting for the intersection to completely clear before FSD will decide to proceed. It took me exactly 48 hours with FSD to realize that Tesla isn't close. "Green light chime", come on.
  - Slartie 4y ago
    > "Green light chime", come on. My 20 year old car also has that feature, and it is seriously useful, it's not a joke at all! It even has 3D spatial audio, as the chime seems to come from somewhere behind the trunk. And it has an incredible number of different melodies, I haven't exhausted them all yet. There's a nasty bug in it though, and the manufacturer hasn't ever fixed it: when there's no other car waiting behind my car, the feature somehow won't work.
    - cwillu 4y ago
      Meh, it's a common feature that should IMO be banned. Twice now I've had it physically jar me while the light was still red!
  - nunez 4y ago
    FSD isn't perfect, but it's miles and miles better than the basically nothing we have from the rest of the industry
- simion314 4y ago
  Ah, so if FSD included at least some working item like say a working game on dashboard you can't ask for a refund on a false advertised system? I assume some of the FSD buyers bought it for the FSD part.
dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago
I own one and I'm not paying Elon $10k to beta test his product. Plus in my country it's worse than USA, by a lot. The highway lane keeping (which every high end car has these days) works okay and is 95% of what you need anyway to reduce workload and increase safety. And even that has its limitations: it will crash into the back of a car parked in your lane and won't go around it - instead preferring to stay in the exact middle of the lane. When you are driving straight and lane markings from a T intersection merge into your lane, it gets super confused and swerves everywhere, unable to determine it was in its original lane. It cannot handle anything more than a light corner; a medium corner and it will start to depart the lane. If a car crosses in front (turning into a side street), it brakes aggressively, not able to calculate the car has zero chance of being hit.
- dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago
  Plus the "upgrades" not able to be sold with the car, is a massive punch in the gut.
xattt 4y ago
> Tesla then resold the cars without FSD unless the new buyers paid for the scam again. Are there any historical or modern-day equivalents of this form of transaction?
- vba616 4y ago
  I have the impression IBM started doing this sort of thing with its mainframes, oh, a half century or more ago?
onethought 4y ago
As oppose to VW charging 5k for "Auto parking" - no one seems to mind that. But 10k for Auto Parking, Summon, Enhanced Auto Pilot and maybe future autonomy is unacceptable!? It's like people forget the rest of the car industry when talking about Tesla.
- nunez 4y ago
  It's because people are losing their minds over the feature set being called Full Self Driving despite it being not that (right now)
nunez 4y ago
They paid $10k for a package that included a set of features available at time of purchase. That they did not receive future functionality post-lease is irrelevant.

by avalys 4y ago

duckkg5 4y ago

I own one and am glad they are getting flack. hopefully someone will compel them to make it right.

omarforgotpwd 4y ago

The Full Self-Driving package on Teslas gives you access to a number of features including autopark, auto lane change, navigate on autopilot, green light chime, traffic light and stop sign control, summon, smart summon, an update to the latest car computer, as well as the city streets Beta. Just not true to say they received no functionality. I paid $7,000 for it on my last car and it's incredible. It can often do entire drives with no human input. And not just simple drives, but some pretty complex scenarios too.

mark242 4y ago
> It can often do entire drives with no human input. And not just simple drives, but some pretty complex scenarios too. This is just patently false. I have been in the beta for months, and I have yet to have "an entire drive" without having to disengage. FSD behaves like a fifteen-year-old who has just gotten their learner's permit and has zero long-term memory. Any intersection that has a dedicated right-turn lane, when that lane comes out of a widening right lane (as most of them do), FSD will fail on, and will at the very last moment swerve to make the lane change, endangering human drivers coming up from behind, who are correctly getting into the space on the right. Every single time. I cannot count the number of times that a left turn onto a road with a slightly raised middle divider (planters, whatever) will fail. Every single time. At a four-way stop sign FSD does not know when it has the right-of-way and will always defer to every other car. This often leaves you sitting waiting for the intersection to completely clear before FSD will decide to proceed. It took me exactly 48 hours with FSD to realize that Tesla isn't close. "Green light chime", come on.
- Slartie 4y ago
  > "Green light chime", come on. My 20 year old car also has that feature, and it is seriously useful, it's not a joke at all! It even has 3D spatial audio, as the chime seems to come from somewhere behind the trunk. And it has an incredible number of different melodies, I haven't exhausted them all yet. There's a nasty bug in it though, and the manufacturer hasn't ever fixed it: when there's no other car waiting behind my car, the feature somehow won't work.
  - cwillu 4y ago
    Meh, it's a common feature that should IMO be banned. Twice now I've had it physically jar me while the light was still red!
- nunez 4y ago
  FSD isn't perfect, but it's miles and miles better than the basically nothing we have from the rest of the industry
simion314 4y ago
Ah, so if FSD included at least some working item like say a working game on dashboard you can't ask for a refund on a false advertised system? I assume some of the FSD buyers bought it for the FSD part.

dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago

I own one and I'm not paying Elon $10k to beta test his product. Plus in my country it's worse than USA, by a lot. The highway lane keeping (which every high end car has these days) works okay and is 95% of what you need anyway to reduce workload and increase safety. And even that has its limitations: it will crash into the back of a car parked in your lane and won't go around it - instead preferring to stay in the exact middle of the lane. When you are driving straight and lane markings from a T intersection merge into your lane, it gets super confused and swerves everywhere, unable to determine it was in its original lane. It cannot handle anything more than a light corner; a medium corner and it will start to depart the lane. If a car crosses in front (turning into a side street), it brakes aggressively, not able to calculate the car has zero chance of being hit.

dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago
Plus the "upgrades" not able to be sold with the car, is a massive punch in the gut.

xattt 4y ago

> Tesla then resold the cars without FSD unless the new buyers paid for the scam again. Are there any historical or modern-day equivalents of this form of transaction?

vba616 4y ago
I have the impression IBM started doing this sort of thing with its mainframes, oh, a half century or more ago?

onethought 4y ago

As oppose to VW charging 5k for "Auto parking" - no one seems to mind that. But 10k for Auto Parking, Summon, Enhanced Auto Pilot and maybe future autonomy is unacceptable!? It's like people forget the rest of the car industry when talking about Tesla.

nunez 4y ago
It's because people are losing their minds over the feature set being called Full Self Driving despite it being not that (right now)

nunez 4y ago

They paid $10k for a package that included a set of features available at time of purchase. That they did not receive future functionality post-lease is irrelevant.