4 ms·

This is being posted just a day after this tweet: https://twitter.com/allenholub/status/1555324387087097856 https://twitter.com/allenholub/status/15553243870870

This is being posted just a day after this tweet: https://twitter.com/allenholub/status/1555324387087097856 https://twitter.com/allenholub/status/1555324387087097856 I really wonder what it's like inside Gitlab. The product ticks all the boxes you'd want it to, but the user experience just resonates with sadness and misery.

raverbashing 4y ago
This self-description seems to be targeted at PHB that need convincing why their team should use Git
shapefrog 4y ago
To be fair ... they got a lot of middle management catch phrases into that description. Going to be an easy sell to the board.
- ironmagma 4y ago
  There’s something telling about companies that put sales over common sense.
  - shapefrog 4y ago
    The sales team still gets "pro" laptops.
jrochkind1 4y ago
Woah, that tweet led me to: "GitLab plans to automatically delete projects if they've been inactive for a year and are owned by users of its free tier." Which I hadn't heard. That's.... something.
- Etheryte 4y ago
  If I'm not mistaken they rolled this idea back real quick once it leaked and everyone got mad.
  - ge96 4y ago
    I may not leave a legacy but I'll know that a TODO app I wrote is in an arctic vault.
  - jrochkind1 4y ago
    It looks like they only announced it yesterday... and yes have already rolled it back? But for... "Now makes vague pledge to shove inactive repos into slow object storage." Not sure what that means. If the project isn't still available at the web and git URL it always was, that's a problem for open source. https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/05/gitlab_reverses_deletion_policy/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/05/gitlab_reverses_delet... It's kind of shocking to me that they didn't realize how it would upset people, makes me think they are a bit disconnected. OK, here's the HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32350180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32350180
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      > It looks like they only announced it yesterday... and yes have already rolled it back? They didn't really "announce" it, the plans were leaked.
lbotos 4y ago
I work there. (And have for the last 5 years.) Obviously I can't divulge anything confidential, but ask a more specific question and I'm happy to answer from my vantage.
- ironmagma 4y ago
  What are the downsides of the culture?
  - lbotos 4y ago
    - Transparency is amazing, but it doesn't always mean clarity. We try really hard to say "why not just what" but you won't always have or easily get all of the context because there is possibly a lot of context. - Async is really hard for new folks to adopt to, and it can be hard for people to adopt to "you will be measured on your results, not hours worked." - I think we've done a really decent job of navigating an organization with a huge amount of cultures represented, but adapting and then adopting a "company culture" on top of that can also be challenging for team members to understand. (Think some cultures are more direct, and others reserved). This doesn't play out in any kind of battle, just as a leader having to be extremely well-versed in a lot of global culture aspects. Happy to answer other questions (again, within reason) if there are others!
    - j-bos 4y ago
      What would you recommend to a new, but competent web developer interested in someday working at gitlab?
      - lbotos 4y ago
        Great question! Web Dev is a really wide term, so a place that's a larger co there is more separation for parts of the stack. At a small co, a web dev might do all of the following: - Backend - Frontend - JS APP - HTML - services/scaling/infra Whereas at this scale those are all separate groups. So I'd say try to get stronger in a specific area that you are interested in (Frontend - Vue / Backend - Rails).
Lutger 4y ago
Did you ever use it? I have, extensively, and found the user experience excellent. Still miss it now I'm using github plus a bunch of other tools.
- ironmagma 4y ago
  I did. I never saw any reason to prefer it over Github, which has a nicer, faster interface. Really what I want is an open source Github.
- kyriakos 4y ago
  Using self hosted enterprise version as an end user and my experience is not that great. It is feature packed but the UI is all over the place.
marcosdumay 4y ago
I don't get it, is the complain about the "you can ensure your teams are working at the right things at the right time" part? How is wanting your products to be aligned with their vision evidence of dysfunction?
- ironmagma 4y ago
  It implies a major problem in their org is/was pesky developers working on things that weren't assigned. Why weren't those things assigned? Bad PMs who don't care about the pain developers feel? Not enough developer freedom? The fact that the roadmap is completely disconnected from what's actually important for the business/developers? It's a product for developers; the developers should know better than anyone what the right things to work on are.
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    "Work on what you think is important" is a fantastic policy with the right people, especially if your developers are also users of the product. Where it falls down is when the team grows and the "not right people" get added to the team. I've seen developers work on just completely the wrong stuff, and their entire salaries was 100% pissed away, or in some cases, even more than 100% because they added net-negative value. You really need to optimize hiring the right people with the right mindset and have a good team lead/manager which balances developer autonomy with business interest. I have thus far not seen it work outside of fairly small teams, although I agree that in principle it's the best way to make a good product and keep your developers happy.
    - ironmagma 4y ago
      Yeah so in other words, this just says they're bad at hiring the right people. Which I'd contend is a red flag...
      - Beltalowda 4y ago
        Unfortunately I've never worked anywhere that wasn't bad at hiring the right people beyond quite small companies. In principle however, I agree.

raverbashing 4y ago

This self-description seems to be targeted at PHB that need convincing why their team should use Git

shapefrog 4y ago

To be fair ... they got a lot of middle management catch phrases into that description. Going to be an easy sell to the board.

ironmagma 4y ago
There’s something telling about companies that put sales over common sense.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  The sales team still gets "pro" laptops.

jrochkind1 4y ago

Woah, that tweet led me to: "GitLab plans to automatically delete projects if they've been inactive for a year and are owned by users of its free tier." Which I hadn't heard. That's.... something.

Etheryte 4y ago
If I'm not mistaken they rolled this idea back real quick once it leaked and everyone got mad.
- ge96 4y ago
  I may not leave a legacy but I'll know that a TODO app I wrote is in an arctic vault.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  It looks like they only announced it yesterday... and yes have already rolled it back? But for... "Now makes vague pledge to shove inactive repos into slow object storage." Not sure what that means. If the project isn't still available at the web and git URL it always was, that's a problem for open source. https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/05/gitlab_reverses_deletion_policy/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/05/gitlab_reverses_delet... It's kind of shocking to me that they didn't realize how it would upset people, makes me think they are a bit disconnected. OK, here's the HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32350180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32350180
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    > It looks like they only announced it yesterday... and yes have already rolled it back? They didn't really "announce" it, the plans were leaked.

lbotos 4y ago

I work there. (And have for the last 5 years.) Obviously I can't divulge anything confidential, but ask a more specific question and I'm happy to answer from my vantage.

ironmagma 4y ago
What are the downsides of the culture?
- lbotos 4y ago
  - Transparency is amazing, but it doesn't always mean clarity. We try really hard to say "why not just what" but you won't always have or easily get all of the context because there is possibly a lot of context. - Async is really hard for new folks to adopt to, and it can be hard for people to adopt to "you will be measured on your results, not hours worked." - I think we've done a really decent job of navigating an organization with a huge amount of cultures represented, but adapting and then adopting a "company culture" on top of that can also be challenging for team members to understand. (Think some cultures are more direct, and others reserved). This doesn't play out in any kind of battle, just as a leader having to be extremely well-versed in a lot of global culture aspects. Happy to answer other questions (again, within reason) if there are others!
  - j-bos 4y ago
    What would you recommend to a new, but competent web developer interested in someday working at gitlab?
    - lbotos 4y ago
      Great question! Web Dev is a really wide term, so a place that's a larger co there is more separation for parts of the stack. At a small co, a web dev might do all of the following: - Backend - Frontend - JS APP - HTML - services/scaling/infra Whereas at this scale those are all separate groups. So I'd say try to get stronger in a specific area that you are interested in (Frontend - Vue / Backend - Rails).

Lutger 4y ago

Did you ever use it? I have, extensively, and found the user experience excellent. Still miss it now I'm using github plus a bunch of other tools.

ironmagma 4y ago
I did. I never saw any reason to prefer it over Github, which has a nicer, faster interface. Really what I want is an open source Github.
kyriakos 4y ago
Using self hosted enterprise version as an end user and my experience is not that great. It is feature packed but the UI is all over the place.

marcosdumay 4y ago

I don't get it, is the complain about the "you can ensure your teams are working at the right things at the right time" part? How is wanting your products to be aligned with their vision evidence of dysfunction?

ironmagma 4y ago
It implies a major problem in their org is/was pesky developers working on things that weren't assigned. Why weren't those things assigned? Bad PMs who don't care about the pain developers feel? Not enough developer freedom? The fact that the roadmap is completely disconnected from what's actually important for the business/developers? It's a product for developers; the developers should know better than anyone what the right things to work on are.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  "Work on what you think is important" is a fantastic policy with the right people, especially if your developers are also users of the product. Where it falls down is when the team grows and the "not right people" get added to the team. I've seen developers work on just completely the wrong stuff, and their entire salaries was 100% pissed away, or in some cases, even more than 100% because they added net-negative value. You really need to optimize hiring the right people with the right mindset and have a good team lead/manager which balances developer autonomy with business interest. I have thus far not seen it work outside of fairly small teams, although I agree that in principle it's the best way to make a good product and keep your developers happy.
  - ironmagma 4y ago
    Yeah so in other words, this just says they're bad at hiring the right people. Which I'd contend is a red flag...
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      Unfortunately I've never worked anywhere that wasn't bad at hiring the right people beyond quite small companies. In principle however, I agree.