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French mayor demands €15,000 fee to climb Mont Blanc
- himinlomax 4y agoNot a fee as mentioned in the article's title, a refundable deposit as explained in the article.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoYes, very poor on the BBC's part. Edit: OK, they have now corrected the title.
- chaostheory 4y agoIt would still be reasonable if they kept the fee. Even if nothing terrible happened, someone has to clean up the mess or it could end up like Everest. Right?
- zimpenfish 4y agoWhilst the article does say it is a deposit (as do many other stories[1][2]), I haven't seen any clarify that it will actually be refundable on safe return - it could well be that he means a deposit in the sense of "paying into a fund" rather than "a refundable deposit" which would essentially be a fee... [1] https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/want-to-get-to-mont-blanc-europes-tallest-peak-you-may-be-asked-for-a-funeral-deposit-8959811.html https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/want-to-get-to-mont... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/french-mayor-mont-blanc-climbers-rescue-funeral-deposit https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/french-mayor-m...
- mytailorisrich 4y ago"Paying a deposit" is rather clear and implies it is refundable (otherwise it's not a deposit but indeed a fee). Now, in French the word used is 'caution' [1], which means 'security deposit' (like a renter would pay their landlord, for instance) and makes it beyond doubt that it is refundable. [1] https://mairie.saintgervais.com/triste-ete-2022-acces-au-mont-blanc-clap-de-fin/ https://mairie.saintgervais.com/triste-ete-2022-acces-au-mon...
- zimpenfish 4y ago> "Paying a deposit" is rather clear and implies it is refundable Yes, it might imply it's refundable but none of the (English) stories have made that explicit - you can deposit into a common fund to pay for something (such as rescues or funerals) with no expectation of refund. > Now, in French the word used is 'caution' [1], which means 'security deposit' That does make it more explicit, thanks!
- Ekaros 4y agoSounds entirely reasonable. If you are doing something dangerous you should be ready to carry the costs of failures.
- SOTGO 4y agoHonestly a refundable deposit sounds like a reasonable option. Although I do wonder if it makes more sense to have some sort of permitting process if there are too many underprepared climbers.
- lbriner 4y agoOr a small insurance shop at the bottom selling you cover. "Flip-flops? Your premium will be E15000 thanks"
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- dbetteridge 4y agoWhy not just require an appropriate level of travel insurance OR a deposit? If the problem is recovery + funeral expenses
- mytailorisrich 4y agoI think the Mayor also wants to limit the number of climbers. A 10-20euros private insurance would not be an effective deterrent, but having to put down 15k certainly is.
- ozim 4y agoI don't think there is 10-20euros travel insurance one can buy that does not exclude mountain climbing or any activity that requires specialistic gear.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mytailorisrich 4y agoGoogle and quite online quote tells me that I can get a insurance that covers mountaineering to 6,000m (that's very serious mountaineering...), climbing, paragliding, skydiving, etc. for one week throughout Europe and Morocco with 5 million pounds medical cover for £100. Still a massive difference and deterrence level compared to putting down 15k euros.
- michaelt 4y agoYou can get top-up insurance for loads of sports [1] if you want cover for "Mountain Unicycling - Competition" or "Jousting" or "Praying Mantis Training" Of course, there are some things they won't cover - if you're skydiving you have to either be qualified, or undergoing instruction. And it might be a bit expensive - if you're doing scrambling at 7000m in nepal, it'll cost you £150 or so. [1] https://www.sportscoverdirect.com/activity-topup-insurance/ https://www.sportscoverdirect.com/activity-topup-insurance/
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- Markoff 4y agoWhy not just require mandatory insurance covering this? It would cost much less.
- Ekaros 4y agoI wonder what is the rate of incidents here. So how high such premium would actually be.
- kennend3 4y agoI wish this was adopted more. Far too often we see cases of adventurers taking unnecessary risks, only to have taxpayers bail them out. This is unfair on many fronts, but the biggest one is those incurring rescue costs often don't contribute to the local tax base in the first place. People should be able to take an adventure if they want, but they should accept the financial risks associated with this. A deposit system is 100% fair to everyone involved.
- belter 4y agoSounds reasonable, and was probably triggered by events like these. It seems in some years, they had almost 100 deaths a year. "Mont Blanc deaths spark calls to end ‘free-for-all’"(2014): https://www.thelocal.fr/20140717/mont-blanc-climbing-alps-dangers/ https://www.thelocal.fr/20140717/mont-blanc-climbing-alps-da... "...With figures quoting up to 100 deaths each year in the entire Mont Blanc range, some consider it one of the most dangerous mountains in the world. But it's a reality that many see as entirely avoidable... ...It’s on the same list that includes going to Mont Saint Michel and getting a tan on one of France’s beaches and the whole thing reminds one of a large amusement park that goes by the name of Disneyland,” Jean-Marc Peillex, mayor of the town of Saint-Gervais which sits at the foot of the mountain, told The Local. “Mont Blanc is sold like it’s a simple trek, but in reality it’s a high-altitude act of mountaineering...”" "French rescuers refuse to airlift Mont Blanc climber" (2014): https://www.thelocal.fr/20140709/mont-blanc-rescue-climber-alps/ https://www.thelocal.fr/20140709/mont-blanc-rescue-climber-a... "Fed up French officials refused to airlift a Polish climber off the slopes of Mont Blanc, when he called for help after deciding he didn't want to walk down. The local French mayor blasted 'ad hoc' alpinists for being like 'urban consumers'."
- AlexandrB 4y ago> "The French approach to risk is very different than the Anglo-Saxon attitude. They're attitude is 'go on, do what you want to do. But don't come running to us if you get in trouble,'" he said, noting Anglos are surprised by that because they assume they'd be barred from the climb if it was dangerous. I notice this too. North America has a "presumption of safety" that leads to some weird behaviour.
- jbirer 4y agoPretty good idea, actually. He should also name it "Darwin Tax" maybe.
- curiousgal 4y agoIt sounds reasonable for non residents. But as someone paying taxes in France I would be royally pissed if this applied to me.
- roelschroeven 4y agoWhy is that? Are people who live in France somehow less likely to get in trouble while climbing mountains?
- curiousgal 4y agoNo but we pay a lot of taxes, which should cover this.
- andsoitis 4y agoIt's a refundable deposit.
- curiousgal 4y agoWhat happens when I do get into an accident and require evacuation?
- rossdavidh 4y agoTechnically not a "fee", it's a deposit that, if you are the sort of person with the sort of equipment who has any business climbing the mountain in the first place, you will get back.
- LorenPechtel 4y agoUnless you are unlucky and get taken out by an avalanche. At that point you won't care, though. I see it as a big wake-up call that this isn't a walk in the park. I hike, nothing hazardous but even then I see plenty of unprepared idiots.
- rossdavidh 4y agoBoth valid points. On your first point, it is relevant that (in the US anyway) $5000 is not an unusual price for a funeral. But yes, I suppose you are unlikely to care about it in either case.
- NoblePublius 4y agoThe headline is false. It’s a refundable deposit to cover potential rescue costs.
- dathinab 4y ago_deposit_ not fee, title is click bite Basically due to climate change (and especially the current heat wave) it got very dangerous to climb the mountain and they don't want tax payers to repeatedly have to pay for rescue and burial costs of climbers. So there is a deposit now.
- michael1999 4y agoWhat kind of lunatic pushes an ice ascent in high-summer? I'd want a deposit up front too.
- meepmorp 4y agoThe article title is actually: "French mayor threatens €15,000 deposit to climb Mont Blanc" Not really the same thing.
- jfk13 4y agoThe title has been updated since the article was originally posted.
- weddpros 4y ago"He said the number of rescues and deaths in the Mont Blanc massif had not risen this year" (last paragraph): it almost reads like the journalist and the mayor lament that those numbers didn't go up, nullifying their whole argument. Or did I miss something?
- peterbraden 4y agoIf they can't manage to get people to be well equipped before tackling the peak, what are the chances they are going to be able to enforce a permitting system? Honestly, as someone that has climbed Mont Blanc twice, what is necessary is not more red tape, but to actually enforce the current equipment rules at the Gouter. And based on the importance that mountaineering brings to the area, it wouldn't hurt to go and knock down the loose rock in the Gouter couloir.