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Roomba / iRobot is years behind the Chinese companies. We just got an Ecovacs X1 Omni - a mopping vacuum bot with actual rotating mop scrubbers, AI vision obsta
by jitl 4y ago
Roomba / iRobot is years behind the Chinese companies. We just got an Ecovacs X1 Omni - a mopping vacuum bot with actual rotating mop scrubbers, AI vision obstacle avoidance, LIDAR mapping, and most importantly fully automated water fill & mop pad cleaning at the base station. We fill a clean water tank & empty the dirty one about once a week. Floors are spotless - huge difference from static cloth mopping bots.
Meanwhile, iRobot still hadn’t figured out how to make an effective stand-alone mop bot, much less an auto fill station or combined bot that actually works. Roborock and Ecovacs products launch in China 6-12 months before their US launch. By the time Roomba has a decent mop bot, the X2 or X3 will probably be out offering integration with home plumbing to avoid any manual intervention for months at a time.
EDIT: commenters are asking what works offline from Roborock / Ecovacs. For the self-cleaning-mop generation like the X1 Omni:
- Roborock obstacle avoidance is local, but works better with cloud.
- Roborock can be controlled by a local home automation server without internet access.
- Ecovacs obstacle avoidance requires cloud.
- Ecovacs control requires cloud.
I remembered these stats from a Youtube video that I can't find; probably in my partner's history since we watched reviews on the TV together.
I picked the X1 Omni over the Roborock because it has superior mopping performance on tile floors, but I think both would be good options. It seems like Roborock is more privacy compatible.
- martincmartin 4y agoDoesn't iRobot make more from military contracts than consumer facing?
- braingenious 4y agoIt looks like they sold their military business in 2016.
- bearjaws 4y agoYeah I went from a Roomba 960 (2018) to a Xiaomi Roborock S7 and in my research it was eye opening to see the level of tech difference between the two, even the modern Roomba is using a vision only model, and poorly based on reviews. For the same price, Roborock has Lidar scanning, AI obstacle avoidance and mopping. The thing is, it actually works in the Roborock, it can even spot cords and other misc items around my house and avoid them entirely. Additionally since it maps using Lidar it completes a complete cleaning of my living room + kitchen area in 22 minutes, whole house in under 40 minutes. That is with it covering literally every square inch of carpet & tile instead of going around in random patterns...
- Shaanie 4y agoThe Roomba j7+ cord and object detection is working well for me, although it's (probably) more expensive than the Chinese offerings. Regardless, it was a huge step up from my precis Neato Botvac connected (which was probably 5-6 years old though).
- soco 4y agoThe only annoying Xiaomi moments are when it recognizes a sock as dog poo then refuses to do anything in that area (or I couldn't figure out how to reset it). Ah, and it constantly gets stuck on bar stools pedestals.
- mysterydip 4y agoWhen it comes to poo, I'd rather it be overly cautious than miss.
- peteradio 4y ago> will probably be out offering integration with home plumbing to avoid any manual intervention for months at a time. I can't even get a chicken waterer to work for months at a time, no way I'd let a robot access. Even so, is it so bad to let China take the lead, western design can go on vacay and rip off the results when they get back!
- jitl 4y ago> can go on vacay and rip off the results when they get back You can clone the design if there's capital left after consumers have been buying the competitor for years, but can you clone the manufacturing process or price as easily when you're years behind? We see with Qualcomm CPUs and Android phones - the internals are still a few years behind iPhone after about a decade, and Apple still takes the lions share of profits in the phone market.
- the_mitsuhiko 4y agoI can second this. Roborock was already years ahead when we bought ours (3 years ago?) and when I look at what their latest models can do it's pretty clear that Roomba forgot to invest into new technologies.
- resonanttoe 4y agoAbsolutely agree. The lack of LiDAR (or equiv) seems to really hamper iRobot's effectiveness - I had an iRobot i7 and its mapping/pathfinding was ramming in to things at near top speed and ricocheting off the walls. They also still sell vacuum and mopping* robots as seperate units which just drives up the cost. My old setup of the two robots took somewhere on the order of 5-6 hours to do a ~100m2 apartment. I moved to a Roborock and then Dreame bot (someone really needs to talk to Xiaomi about all the sub-brands :P) comparitively, they both took around 1.5 to just under 2 hours to do a much better job. I actually felt huge guilt selling my two iRobot's to someone, wanting to tell them they were complete junk and they were wasting their money. *There is always mixed opinions on mopping effectiveness, but the iRobot roll-and-spit model of mopping is truly horrendous.
- ixs 4y agoBased on the comments here I did a quick look at Amazon and was surprised to not even see a single vacuum only robot from Evovacs. At least not prominently showcased. Why are there only mixed models and what are the benefits? If I look at my place the ground floor is tiled and the top floor is all carpet. That means I would need two vacuums anyway as they haven’t learned yet to climb stairs. Why wouldn’t I want a vacuum only model for upstairs? For downstairs the universal model is great obviously. But upstairs?
- resonanttoe 4y agoI know there were a lot of simple vac only bots in the roborock line up. S5 and similar the mopping funciton is a small pad that you manually wet and it drags along behind. It kind of sucks but if you were in the market for just a vacuum, you remove the bracket and it's fine. The robot has no knowledge of the mop as there isn't a tank. The S6Max that has a tank, you can also remove (easily, two button clips) and it'll not attempt any mopping feature. It also supposedly doesn't squirt water on to the pad when it knows its on carpet, but at some stage you may be dragging a mildly damp cloth on to the carpet. (was never an issue for me, the pad was never that wet that you could reasonably detect it on the carpet) Overall mopping with drag-behind pads is pretty... opportunistic? Its not great and you'll be in a position where you have to manually mop. Many models are switching to the spinning buffer pads which is a much better solution (that's the Dreame W10) but it refuses to do carpet. So its always a matter of finding a model that fits your use case. >That means I would need two vacuums anyway as they haven’t learned yet to climb stairs. Many allow for multi floor mapping on a single bot, but stairs will always be a problem for the Daleks. :P
- secondcoming 4y agoI recently upgraded to a Eufy X8 and it's great. It still gets stuck but on rare occasions.
- Waterluvian 4y agoDoes the Omni handle rooms with big area rugs? Our issue is a hardwood main floor that has a bunch of rugs.
- jitl 4y agoIt will steer around the rug automatically I think, and you can mark the rug locations as no-go zones or no-mop zones. The Roborock is better for mixed floor types because it will actually raise the mop up to vacuum in no-mop zones. The X1 needs to have the mop removed manually to do a vacuum-only pass.
- drakonka 4y agoI recently went from a Roomba S9+ to a RoboRock S7 MaxV Ultra and it was like night and day. The RoboRock has not gotten stuck on a single cat toy, cable, or sock yet. It doesn't bump into furniture repeatedly. It is considerably quieter. I feel like it is the first time I can actually safely start running a robot vacuum while not at home, and not worry that I'll come home to a robot tangled in some random object.
- charles_f 4y ago> S7 MaxV Ultra Gosh, we're approaching the marketing singularity
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoThe "Pro +" is still missing.
- charles_f 4y agoWorst is that it probably works.
- tommit 4y agoHow does it avoid cables? I have an earlier Roborock version and while I love it and will defend it until the day it dies, I've found that cables are the absolute nemesis. Does your version have computer vision?
- drakonka 4y agoPretty sure my version is a standard RoboRock S7, only with the "Ultra" base that also cleans the mop. I might have lucked out with the cables so far. Fwiw I do try to clean the floor of clutter a bit when I know I'm going to run it, but it has still encountered charging cables etc during the run. It's just taken a picture of them as "obstacles" and gone around them.
- aceazzameen 4y ago
- firstSpeaker 4y agoI have had super poor experience with iRobot to the point that we discarded the vacuume+mop unit we had.
- dubeye 4y agoMaybe they are buying the brand, more than the tech. I bought an amazon basics vac for something like 60 USD which just stole the design of the latest cheap vac, so presumably can plunder the more advanced models too, once the market is ready for them.
- Semaphor 4y agoWhat’s the repair story? I have one of the earlier vacuum Roombas (620, bought 8 years ago, before most advancements happened), and I can still find both 1st and 3rd party replacement parts and repair almost everything myself.
- shultays 4y agoDoes mop pad really work? I only have roborock with no fancy mop pad cleaning base station but ignoring that all it does is dragging a wet cloth around. I don't see that helping much
- jitl 4y agoMy previous bot was a "wet mop pad" Ecovacs model without any of the bells and whistles, and it was pretty worthless. I got the X1 Omni specifically because it has dual rotating scrubbers, self-clean/dry, and self-fill. Night and day difference. I feel like I could eat off the floor every morning.
- thesuitonym 4y agoHow easy are the Chinese models to repair? I can't speak for iRobot's mop bots, but the older model vacuums were insanely easy to repair. I had a motor die on one, and it was about ten phillips head screws to get to it, remove it, and pop in a $10 replacement. I was amazed to see a modern consumer item that was so easy to repair. Of course, this is a model I bought used almost ten years ago. Not sure how similar current models are.
- tommit 4y agoI can only speak about the Roborock S5, but I assume the newer ones are fairly comparable. I once had it give me an error that the main fan (for suction) was broken. In this case, there was a small particle lunged into it, so it wouldn't spin. All it took was a little wiggle, and it spun again. It's definitely more than 10 phillips head screws, but less than 30. I guess it depends which part broke, but I had to disassemble pretty much the whole thing. I can promise you that my repair skills or experiences are very novice, but I managed just fine. Had two screws left over after putting it all back together as is tradition, but I suppose they weren't mission critical, as this was like 3 years back and Dobby is still cleaning like a champ. Like half a year ago, the LIDAR broke. Ordered a new one on amazon for 20 bucks, unscrewed now about 28 screws and exchanged the broken part. Put it all together, again tossed away a screw that left me wondering where it belonged, and it still works to this day. This was a very long way of saying "Roborocks repair fairly easily, and there are numerous tutorials online." Edit: BTW, Dobby has been cleaning for almost 500 hours now. At that price point, there is no cheaper hourly cleaning staff :)
- nicbou 4y agoI also have an S5. Had a LIDAR that wouldn't spin. Paid 15€ or so for an identical part on Amazon. It took 5 minutes and a single screwdriver to swap it.
- tommit 4y agoAt 5 minutes you were really quick! For me it was probably like 20-30, but like I said: it's not necessarily something I'm skilled at. Either way, repairs are fairly quick and easy!
- jmuguy 4y agoWe went from a "dumb" Eufy RoboVac 11 to a Roomba i3+ EVO 3550 and I honestly wish we stayed with the Eufy or done more research. I just assumed Roomba was like the gold standard of robot vacuums. Its had so many stupid issues including randomly lighting up and making sounds at night which wakes me up since its in our bedroom. I haven't talked to their support because honestly I'm sure it'll be like all other consumer electronics and they'll just waste my time running through BS troubleshooting steps and not actually fix anything
- thethethethe 4y agoYou can turn off the lights in the app. This was annoying me too. They added it as a feature recently. I think the idea is that you know your Roomba is docked correctly and charging if the light is flashing
- jmuguy 4y agoDo you remember where in app? I checked a few times and don't see anything.
- thethethethe 4y agoGo to "Robot Settings", then "Status Lights" about halfway down the page
- dawnerd 4y agoIt’s crazy tho, even the cheapest roborock w/ LiDAR smokes every roomba out there. It’s hard to justify the more expensive models unless but the advanced feature sets are tempting.
- ramraj07 4y agoYou are absolutely right, but I’m not sure I want to have a free roaming camera and LiDAR sensor from a Chinese company in my home. Absolute piss poor track record of data collection, I’ll happily stick to my roomba. It’s definitely semi dumb but it’s predictable in its quirks. It’s also repairable with copious supply of original parts. Note also that they still innovate, including the self empty bin that actually works, which others have now copied. Just sayin’.
- Fiahil 4y agopi-hole the roborock subdomains. You'll loose starting via the app, but the robot stills works.
- ls15 4y ago> You are absolutely right, but I’m not sure I want to have a free roaming camera and LiDAR sensor from a Chinese company in my home. Absolute piss poor track record of data collection I am not sure if Amazon is more trustworthy than that.
- kyle_martin1 4y ago
- ratww 4y agoI would say Amazon has plenty of problems, but also plenty more incentive to behave and try to be careful with the data.
- nivenkos 4y ago> Ecovacs X1 Omni It costs $1400 here, literally $1000 more than the basic Roomba models, and still $400-600 more than buying a Roomba mop and vacuum separately.
- spookthesunset 4y agoDoes the list of obstacles these things avoid include pet accidents like poop, cat puke, etc? Cause we have a pukey cat and a robo vac might make things much much worse.
- jitl 4y agoYoutube review videos show that it does. I don't have a pet, so no first-hand experience to share.
- sundvor 4y agoThe Omni is AUD $2500. It had better be truly amazing, it's 4x the price I paid for my old Roomba 780 many a year ago that did a decent job of it until it died after 5-6 years of service.
- UIUC_06 4y ago
- colinmhayes 4y agoSo what if China knows what’s in your house? If American companies know what’s in your house the government can ask them for that info at any time and as Amazon has shown they’ll give it up without a warrant. The Chinese government isn’t coming to my house and I doubt Chinese companies are dealing with the us government like Amazon is.
- UIUC_06 4y agook, so how about we set up a webcam in your bedroom and livestream it on the Internet?
- colinmhayes 4y agoHow does that compare to the Chinese government having a map of your house at all? Honestly though, if the livestream was only viewable in China I’d be fine. Certainly much more comfortable with that than it being viewable in the us.
- UIUC_06 4y ago
- mypalmike 4y agoIn all likelihood, literally nobody would watch.
- UIUC_06 4y agoI don't think you want the word "literally" there. https://topnews.in/ten-most-boring-videos-youtube-revealed-2232368 https://topnews.in/ten-most-boring-videos-youtube-revealed-2... Over 1M views! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLOPygVcaVE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLOPygVcaVE
- lm28469 4y ago> a mopping vacuum bot with actual rotating mop scrubbers, AI vision obstacle avoidance, LIDAR mapping, and most importantly fully automated water fill & mop pad cleaning at the base station. And here I am using a broomstick 5 min every day... I feel like we're going to hit the great filter pretty soon
- nixass 4y ago> We just got an Ecovacs X1 Omni - a mopping vacuum bot with actual rotating mop scrubbers, AI vision obstacle avoidance, LIDAR mapping, and most importantly fully automated water fill & mop pad cleaning at the base station Well for 1500 Eur it better does all of it and even more
- hintymad 4y agoWhat I don't understand is how iRobot, once an iconic innovator, could move so slow and innovate so little that Roborock, a company founded in 2014, could beat the shit out of iRobot.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- darthrupert 4y agoI think we have the answer now: They focused on getting acquired. That is never good for the consumer.
- simonebrunozzi 4y agoData. Amazon bought data. Mostly. 10 million customers = data about 10 million homes. Plus some revenues, why not.
- cactus2093 4y agoThat's exactly what makes this a good acquisition, right? Roomba has the brand/trademark recognition in the US and solid marketshare but a stagnant product, which iRobot apparently does not have the expertise needed to keep improving. For Amazon that should be a pretty straightforward technical/ML problem to solve to get back to the forefront of where Xiaomi, Ecovacs, etc. are.
- Ken_At_EM 4y agoI sincerely desire to avoid having a mobile, internet connected device that equips many sensors and cameras in my home that is designed, manufactured and supported by a Chinese company.
- ev1 4y agoI don't want this with an American company either. Local only.
- Ken_At_EM 4y agoThe only true way to go. Honestly nothing has made me consider going device free like all of the telemetry these days.
- lostlogin 4y agoAmazon isn’t exactly pure here, can we have neither?
- Ken_At_EM 4y agoYes we totally can. Honestly, the idea of telemetry is general enough that it can and should be legislated. At the very least products should advertise that they produce telemetry when connected to the internet and have an option or have to distribute the knowledge of how to disable it.
- jjav 4y agoI sincerely desire to avoid having a mobile, internet connected device that equips many sensors and cameras in my home.
- Ken_At_EM 4y agoAlso agree.
- spotlesstofu 4y agoWhat about effectiveness of the vacuuming? That's where Roomba is superior afaik, and the feature is pretty essential since you buy them to clean floors and carpet, not to delight you with the smoothest navigation.
- deelowe 4y agoDoes it still double as a poop spreader or did they finally add a sensor for that? As a former roomba owner, the issue I always had was that it was pretty terrible about coverage. The random walk it did often left large areas vacuumed as it had no sense of where it had and had not vacuumed.
- lostlogin 4y agoIt’s very methodical and works in lines at home - unless it gets into chair-leg hell under the kitchen table (table and 6 chairs, 28).
- jdlshore 4y agoYour information is many years out of date. The latest model maps your house (and has been doing so for a long time), uses a camera to identify and avoid obstacles including poop, and automatically empties its bin.
- pmontra 4y ago- Ecovacs obstacle avoidance requires cloud. - Ecovacs control requires cloud. No thanks. I'm not giving my home to China, America or whatever. Roborock seems to be better. Anyway it should be blocked by the home firewall, just to be safe.
- silisili 4y agoDo you know how they work on tile? I see everyone recommend for wood flooring, but my house is mainly a textured tile. Things like a regular vacuum make loud clanks rolling over and between them. Wondering if a robovac would even work, or get stuck, or just be obnoxiously loud rolling around. Anyone know?
- credit_guy 4y ago> Meanwhile, iRobot still hadn’t figured out how to make an effective stand-alone mop bot, much less an auto fill station or combined bot that actually works But then maybe that's where the synergy is. Amazon is probably ahead of everyone on the planet with machine vision. They have the Amazon Go shops, and nobody else has anything that comes close. If they take iRobot's robotics knowledge and couple it with their own machine learning expertise, who will be able to compete with them?
- fennecfoxy 4y agoI have a Roborock S4 and I love the thing (though I want to upgrade to a mopping one at some point) But on the S4 I find sometimes it underperforms with navigation: it ends up relying on the bumpers and it smashes into table and desk legs even though the lidar should give it a heads-up (the legs are visible on the map it creates). I'm wondering if it updates the map as it cleans but only _uses_ the updated map once the current clean is finished. Hmmmm