4 ms·

In the US checks (cheques) are used mostly for significant transactions, because it acts as a contract. As a consumer you can easily get away with using electro

by kurthr 4y ago

In the US checks (cheques) are used mostly for significant transactions, because it acts as a contract. As a consumer you can easily get away with using electronic or credit/debit transactions for almost everything. However, some transactions over $5-10k are worth using checks. If you get a car loan, you don't need a check, but if you pay "cash" then a check is most likely preferred by you and the dealer. For house down payments, cash is illegal (note that it says DEBTS public and private) in the US, but checks are accepted and ACH/wire transfers are most common. By using a check and filling in the note properly you can create a legal requirement that a service or product be delivered on payment (which is different from asking for your money back from a bank or card company through their resolution procedure), if you need to go to court. I'm sure there's a grandma out there using checks at the grocery store, but it's quite rare. And except for very small grocery purchases ($1-5) cash is pretty rare too. Japan seems like the most culturally cash based (and China the least) place I've been. Europe and US are in the middle. South America may still be fairly cash based, but I haven't visited recently.

phist_mcgee 4y ago
I think that's a solution looking for a problem. Payment via bank transfer is also a contract, the dispute resolution is no different. I don't see how a promise note on a piece of paper somehow protects you better than an electronic transfer that is visible to you, the other party, the bank, and to authorities.
- qabqabaca 4y ago
  Agree. It's like Stockholm Syndrome. It comes across the same as when someone from the US tries to argue that putting the month before the day actually makes sense in dates because then the max values go from lowest to highest (12/31/9999+).
  - alexvoda 4y ago
    That is the perfect moment to mention ISO 8601 and RFC 3339.
    - pooper 4y ago
      I started using 8601 without even thinking about it for one simple reason. Alphabetical sorting just works with YYYYmmdd So for example, log20220804.txt https://xkcd.com/1179/ https://xkcd.com/1179/ At the very least, use four digit years, not 22 for 2022. > ISO 8601 was published on 06/05/88 and most recently amended on 12/01/04.
      - smdyc1 4y ago
        I've been using that format too for the same reason, without knowing about 8601. Day/Month/Year is great for a person (I'm in Aus) since we, as human beings, intrinsically know what year it is, and probably know what month it is if we haven't been on a bender. But string sorting is so much easier using yyyyMMdd format.
      - sneak 4y ago
        yyyymmdd is incorrect, as pointed out explicitly in the xkcd you linked. The format is yyyy-mm-dd.
  - mvid 4y ago
    US and non-US date styles are equally wrong. It’s just personal preference or what you are used to. The only “correct” option would be Year Month Day, and the only argument that needs to be made for is look at how your clock arranges time, or how you write it down.
aceofspades19 4y ago
How is the dispute resolution process different with a cheque vs other forms of payment? What do you have to put in the note line that makes this legal requirement? and how is this different than a regular sales contract? I don't know what you would buy for $5k+ that doesn't already have some sort of sales contract which would be legally binding. It's not like you can show up to a dealership with $20k in cash and just drive a car off the lot without signing anything.
wink 4y ago
> I'm sure there's a grandma out there using checks at the grocery store Someone living in San Francisco excitedly! told me just 1-3 years ago that they could now use some 'photograph your check' feature on their mobile - not 100% sure where the checks were used, but said person was not used to using checks where they came from.. sounds kinda widespread.
- anyfoo 4y ago
  I still pay my rent every month per check, and only per check (the landlord insists, I don't mind). I also do occasionally receive checks for very insignificant amounts of money in the mail, e.g. few cents back from insurance or stuff like that. That's always a bit funny.
bluedino 4y ago
Most grandmas are still writing checks for groceries. It's also not uncommon for people 50+ to 'not trust' debit cards, ATM's, etc as well.
- LinuxBender 4y ago
  I am in that group but for me it is less about biological age and more about experience. I have had many experiences with ATM's and ATM networks being offline. Card processors being DDoS'd while I was trying to buy something at the store. Card terminals being hacked and "offline for maintenance". Card terminals offline but nobody knows why. Many of the card terminals here are dirty and won't read the chip. It is not my card, many people have these problems. I have to explain how to clean the readers to the clerks and their managers. When traveling cross-country this is not just an inconvenience, it is a road-trip stopper unless one has cash. Cash does not go offline. 3 days ago I had to help a friend that was stuck at the store with no cash and their card was not working. Their account was fine but the card system was offline for unknown reasons. I gave them cash and we were on our way. Now they know to keep cash on them. Adding to this is the way ACH/wire transfers work gives me exactly zero confidence in the banking system. Sure, I might be able to eventually get my money back. Banks have the security of a high-school locker sitting in a dark alley as very little information about me is required to empty an account with zero interaction on my part. This information is leaked by online websites from every sector all the time. I just use banks as a small caching/broker system for online transactions and I watch my accounts like a hawk. If banks want to hold more money they need to entirely redesign that system and I know I am definitely not alone in this way of thinking and it isn't just people age 50+. Many in the hacker communities that work for banks are also aware of their vulnerabilities. I was part of that community when I worked for a bank.
bern4444 4y ago
I hate using checks. I have little trust in a flimsy piece of paper that you often have to mail to be the method of transaction. It boggles my mind how checks are still so prevalent. When we have tools like Venmo, Zelle, ACH Transfers, Apple Pay etc. The few times I've had to use a check (and a cashiers check at that) its been to sign a new lease on an apartment and it is one of the most nerve-racking days I have. I would absolutely prefer to transact exclusively through digital transfers of any kind.
rufus_foreman 4y ago
>> And except for very small grocery purchases ($1-5) cash is pretty rare too Not in my neighborhood. Only half of the self-checkout machines take cash and there is often a long line for the ones that take cash while some of the ones that only take cards sit unused.

by kurthr 4y ago

phist_mcgee 4y ago

I think that's a solution looking for a problem. Payment via bank transfer is also a contract, the dispute resolution is no different. I don't see how a promise note on a piece of paper somehow protects you better than an electronic transfer that is visible to you, the other party, the bank, and to authorities.

qabqabaca 4y ago
Agree. It's like Stockholm Syndrome. It comes across the same as when someone from the US tries to argue that putting the month before the day actually makes sense in dates because then the max values go from lowest to highest (12/31/9999+).
- alexvoda 4y ago
  That is the perfect moment to mention ISO 8601 and RFC 3339.
  - pooper 4y ago
    I started using 8601 without even thinking about it for one simple reason. Alphabetical sorting just works with YYYYmmdd So for example, log20220804.txt https://xkcd.com/1179/ https://xkcd.com/1179/ At the very least, use four digit years, not 22 for 2022. > ISO 8601 was published on 06/05/88 and most recently amended on 12/01/04.
    - smdyc1 4y ago
      I've been using that format too for the same reason, without knowing about 8601. Day/Month/Year is great for a person (I'm in Aus) since we, as human beings, intrinsically know what year it is, and probably know what month it is if we haven't been on a bender. But string sorting is so much easier using yyyyMMdd format.
    - sneak 4y ago
      yyyymmdd is incorrect, as pointed out explicitly in the xkcd you linked. The format is yyyy-mm-dd.
- mvid 4y ago
  US and non-US date styles are equally wrong. It’s just personal preference or what you are used to. The only “correct” option would be Year Month Day, and the only argument that needs to be made for is look at how your clock arranges time, or how you write it down.

aceofspades19 4y ago

How is the dispute resolution process different with a cheque vs other forms of payment? What do you have to put in the note line that makes this legal requirement? and how is this different than a regular sales contract? I don't know what you would buy for $5k+ that doesn't already have some sort of sales contract which would be legally binding. It's not like you can show up to a dealership with $20k in cash and just drive a car off the lot without signing anything.

wink 4y ago

> I'm sure there's a grandma out there using checks at the grocery store Someone living in San Francisco excitedly! told me just 1-3 years ago that they could now use some 'photograph your check' feature on their mobile - not 100% sure where the checks were used, but said person was not used to using checks where they came from.. sounds kinda widespread.

anyfoo 4y ago
I still pay my rent every month per check, and only per check (the landlord insists, I don't mind). I also do occasionally receive checks for very insignificant amounts of money in the mail, e.g. few cents back from insurance or stuff like that. That's always a bit funny.

bluedino 4y ago

Most grandmas are still writing checks for groceries. It's also not uncommon for people 50+ to 'not trust' debit cards, ATM's, etc as well.

LinuxBender 4y ago
I am in that group but for me it is less about biological age and more about experience. I have had many experiences with ATM's and ATM networks being offline. Card processors being DDoS'd while I was trying to buy something at the store. Card terminals being hacked and "offline for maintenance". Card terminals offline but nobody knows why. Many of the card terminals here are dirty and won't read the chip. It is not my card, many people have these problems. I have to explain how to clean the readers to the clerks and their managers. When traveling cross-country this is not just an inconvenience, it is a road-trip stopper unless one has cash. Cash does not go offline. 3 days ago I had to help a friend that was stuck at the store with no cash and their card was not working. Their account was fine but the card system was offline for unknown reasons. I gave them cash and we were on our way. Now they know to keep cash on them. Adding to this is the way ACH/wire transfers work gives me exactly zero confidence in the banking system. Sure, I might be able to eventually get my money back. Banks have the security of a high-school locker sitting in a dark alley as very little information about me is required to empty an account with zero interaction on my part. This information is leaked by online websites from every sector all the time. I just use banks as a small caching/broker system for online transactions and I watch my accounts like a hawk. If banks want to hold more money they need to entirely redesign that system and I know I am definitely not alone in this way of thinking and it isn't just people age 50+. Many in the hacker communities that work for banks are also aware of their vulnerabilities. I was part of that community when I worked for a bank.

bern4444 4y ago

I hate using checks. I have little trust in a flimsy piece of paper that you often have to mail to be the method of transaction. It boggles my mind how checks are still so prevalent. When we have tools like Venmo, Zelle, ACH Transfers, Apple Pay etc. The few times I've had to use a check (and a cashiers check at that) its been to sign a new lease on an apartment and it is one of the most nerve-racking days I have. I would absolutely prefer to transact exclusively through digital transfers of any kind.

rufus_foreman 4y ago

>> And except for very small grocery purchases ($1-5) cash is pretty rare too Not in my neighborhood. Only half of the self-checkout machines take cash and there is often a long line for the ones that take cash while some of the ones that only take cards sit unused.