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Sure but the question isnt how did he decide to fortify a successful company with his reputstion, but an unethical one. Successful does not mean ethical. They'r

Sure but the question isnt how did he decide to fortify a successful company with his reputstion, but an unethical one. Successful does not mean ethical. They're so unrelated as to be orthogonal.

fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
Pioneering technology that pushes society forwards often comes from unsavory industries. Its a reality of life and a critical piece of capitalism
- fezfight 4y ago
  And thus it always should? No. Carmack could apply his genius elsewhere, but he chose not to. I'd like to hear him explain why.
  - t-3 4y ago
    Do you honestly think there will be an explanation other than "they offered me a bunch of money to do $X"? Smart people aren't required to be self-righteous saints sacrificing themselves for the good of everyone else.
    - fezfight 4y ago
      If you ask me, his reputation was the thing that was sacrificed when he joined Facebook. His legacy is now: He was a brilliant pioneer in the first half of his career. Then he helped normalize and sustain an ethically dubious company. I care because I used to respect him and I can't quite make sense of his choice.
      - fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
        fezfight 4y ago
        fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
        fezfight 4y ago
      - azemetre 4y ago
        I don’t think this will actually be his legacy, many of the world’s famous scientists and engineers worked for companies, empires, and a variety of unsavory groups. I mean Charles Darwin was part of a scientific expedition for the British military, which at the time contributed real world misery and suffering on a global scale but this rarely comes up when discussing evolution. Maybe this time will be different or maybe after a few hundred years we trim details until it becomes a digestible snippet where you never mention the bad side.
        fezfight 4y ago
        Zuckerberg is probably the guy who will get figuratively crucified for the abusive shit Facebook did. Which is why it's crazy someone bright would be like, 'oh me too!' I assume he sees it differently. I'd like to understand.
        p1esk 4y ago
        For 99% of all people in the world, Zuckerberg will always be known as a brilliant mind who created Facebook - the social network. Right up there with Einstein and Elon Musk. They don't know about any abusive shit, don't want to know, and will never know.
        fezfight 4y ago
        Yeah, time will tell. Ford and Edison probably lived similar lives. Their legacies are tarnished by their abuse now.
        p1esk 4y ago
        Ford and Edison are universally recognized as American greats - a genius businessman and a genius inventor. I don't know anything about any abuse they might have done, and I suspect 99% of Americans don't either.
        t-3 4y ago
      - joshspankit 4y ago
        To me his legacy might be something like “Godfather of VR. He set the bar high and pushed the market to strive for it. For some reason he handed the keys to the wrong people before it really hit big, but thankfully he also gave us _____ and _____.” While I hope we get the closure of finding out why he sold to FB, I think he still has much to bring to the world.
        fezfight 4y ago
        Isn't Palmer Lucky the grandfather? He created occulus, the rift, and was the one who gave the keys to FB.
        joshspankit 4y ago
        He certainly can be too. There’s no rules about there having to be a single grandfather. What’s important to me about Carmack is that he was unwavering about the need for high fps and low latency through the entire pixel pipeline (as well as a lot of other things), and that he brought the skills to make it possible. A VR industry based on a common denominator of 60fps with 10ms panel response times was very close to being the reality (and IMO that industry would have killed VR’s adoption for at least another decade)
sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
Do you think id was an "ethical company"?
- sph 4y ago
  Whataboutism at its best. Why do you think id was not ethical, and are you seriously trying to argue that Facebook is as unethical as id software?
  - sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
    > Whataboutism at its best. The poster suggested joining facebook was a new low in character for Carmack. So this is hardly "whataboutism" > are you seriously trying to argue that Facebook is as unethical as id software I guess it depends on what your concerns about Facebook are. Did id treat employees well? Did it produce products that made that world a better place? In the 90s there was just as much bad media and controversy surrounding Doom and violent video games as there is around Facebook. Just to clarify, I am not trying to compare them point for point. Just surprised that anyone would take issue with Carmack participating at FB. The guy is primarily known for making edgy entertainment products, not elementary schools. I don't have a problem with either.
    - fezfight 4y ago
      He's a folk hero in game dev at this point.

Sure but the question isnt how did he decide to fortify a successful company with his reputstion, but an unethical one. Successful does not mean ethical. They're so unrelated as to be orthogonal.

fdgsdfogijq 4y ago

Pioneering technology that pushes society forwards often comes from unsavory industries. Its a reality of life and a critical piece of capitalism

fezfight 4y ago
And thus it always should? No. Carmack could apply his genius elsewhere, but he chose not to. I'd like to hear him explain why.
- t-3 4y ago
  Do you honestly think there will be an explanation other than "they offered me a bunch of money to do $X"? Smart people aren't required to be self-righteous saints sacrificing themselves for the good of everyone else.
  - fezfight 4y ago
    If you ask me, his reputation was the thing that was sacrificed when he joined Facebook. His legacy is now: He was a brilliant pioneer in the first half of his career. Then he helped normalize and sustain an ethically dubious company. I care because I used to respect him and I can't quite make sense of his choice.
    - fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
      - fezfight 4y ago
        fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
        fezfight 4y ago
    - azemetre 4y ago
      I don’t think this will actually be his legacy, many of the world’s famous scientists and engineers worked for companies, empires, and a variety of unsavory groups. I mean Charles Darwin was part of a scientific expedition for the British military, which at the time contributed real world misery and suffering on a global scale but this rarely comes up when discussing evolution. Maybe this time will be different or maybe after a few hundred years we trim details until it becomes a digestible snippet where you never mention the bad side.
      - fezfight 4y ago
        Zuckerberg is probably the guy who will get figuratively crucified for the abusive shit Facebook did. Which is why it's crazy someone bright would be like, 'oh me too!' I assume he sees it differently. I'd like to understand.
        p1esk 4y ago
        For 99% of all people in the world, Zuckerberg will always be known as a brilliant mind who created Facebook - the social network. Right up there with Einstein and Elon Musk. They don't know about any abusive shit, don't want to know, and will never know.
        fezfight 4y ago
        Yeah, time will tell. Ford and Edison probably lived similar lives. Their legacies are tarnished by their abuse now.
        p1esk 4y ago
        Ford and Edison are universally recognized as American greats - a genius businessman and a genius inventor. I don't know anything about any abuse they might have done, and I suspect 99% of Americans don't either.
        t-3 4y ago
    - joshspankit 4y ago
      To me his legacy might be something like “Godfather of VR. He set the bar high and pushed the market to strive for it. For some reason he handed the keys to the wrong people before it really hit big, but thankfully he also gave us _____ and _____.” While I hope we get the closure of finding out why he sold to FB, I think he still has much to bring to the world.
      - fezfight 4y ago
        Isn't Palmer Lucky the grandfather? He created occulus, the rift, and was the one who gave the keys to FB.
        joshspankit 4y ago
        He certainly can be too. There’s no rules about there having to be a single grandfather. What’s important to me about Carmack is that he was unwavering about the need for high fps and low latency through the entire pixel pipeline (as well as a lot of other things), and that he brought the skills to make it possible. A VR industry based on a common denominator of 60fps with 10ms panel response times was very close to being the reality (and IMO that industry would have killed VR’s adoption for at least another decade)

sicp-enjoyer 4y ago

Do you think id was an "ethical company"?

sph 4y ago
Whataboutism at its best. Why do you think id was not ethical, and are you seriously trying to argue that Facebook is as unethical as id software?
- sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
  > Whataboutism at its best. The poster suggested joining facebook was a new low in character for Carmack. So this is hardly "whataboutism" > are you seriously trying to argue that Facebook is as unethical as id software I guess it depends on what your concerns about Facebook are. Did id treat employees well? Did it produce products that made that world a better place? In the 90s there was just as much bad media and controversy surrounding Doom and violent video games as there is around Facebook. Just to clarify, I am not trying to compare them point for point. Just surprised that anyone would take issue with Carmack participating at FB. The guy is primarily known for making edgy entertainment products, not elementary schools. I don't have a problem with either.
  - fezfight 4y ago
    He's a folk hero in game dev at this point.